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Discussion Starter #1
I can not say this is the do-all end-all statement, but...

I was speaking to my brother the other day who works at a Honda dealership and he said the Honda Rep. was having a serious heart-to-heart with all the salesman about the past few years of Honda sales.

They(Honda) are tired of seeing Yamaha product sell out year after year while Honda still has 01 Erions and 02 954's in a Ohio warehouse.

Honda is also tired of the complaints by customers that are not willing to buy a Honda product again because of value. Frankly, there is none anymore.
Honda value has dropped on their avg. bike by almost 15%.(NEW)
Over 20% on resale.

A lot of this I was told is because of a few dealerships that just sell at or just above dealer cost. Some under.

Honda is going to be laying down rules for dealers carrying their products, and there is going to be possible penalities for discounting their products beyond a certain point.

I also to understand that Honda maybe limiting their production lines in terms of quantity produced per year. ( A very smart thing)

We'll be paying some higher prices on the front, but much higher value on the backside also.
I know many of people who have been stung by the cheap resale and diminishing NADA values after a theft or a accident has occured and they are looking for the insurance "replacement" value check.

I personally am happy Honda is taking action against their diminishing value, many people just walk right by the Honda product and look to Yamaha for price, package, and value these days.
(That has been my view as a salesperson,(formerly) in the area that I live, this started just about or after 2000.)

I just hope that Honda makes some wiser choices as far as MSRP's to be more competitive with the other companies.
Not this $300-800. more than the competitions MSRP's they have been pulling.

If anyone else works for a dealership, did you get the same chat?
Anyone else hear something similar?
 

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That only means now the prices will go up and aren't Honda priced higher then the competition already? :confused:

I also think Honda did better with the styling starting with the 954 :thumb:


I think this year is gonna be fierce between the Big 3..Honda, Yamaha, and Kawi.
 

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Jay said:
We'll be paying some higher prices on the front, but much higher value on the backside also.
Personally, I don't consider resale value when buying a bike. I want to ride it until it's worthless, anyway. The 929 was irresistable to me at $8k.

These will probably be good steps for Honda and their dealers, but not for me.

It's got to be tough in this market, anyway, with models evolving every year or two and the competition always nipping at your heals.
 

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don't get me wrong, I LOVED my 929 when I had it.

resale value is only what people are willing to pay for it. does it really matter what nada says? the stealerships are always going to try and know that price down and the local buyer is just looking for a "deal".

If honda reduces its output of bikes it will lose this battle. Look at Aprilia now, there are fewer bikes than Honda and the resale took a big nosedive this year because of the redesign.

Honda just needs to find a good design and win on the track, they seem to be playing "keep up with the Jones' " and they are losing. what was the old slogan - follow the leader he's on a honda? maybe it is time to be on the cutting edge again, instead living with 2d or 3d place.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ND4SPD said:
Maybe they wouldn't be so far in the hole if they'd let people sit on their bikes at shows :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
Who doesnt let you sit on a bike??
Thats stupid!

We let people sit on all bikes except Ducati(when I was in sales), and we just asked that you asked for help there. Mostly because the kickstand used to be "autoRetracted" when pressure is removed.


The market is tough db, but and many people do consider trade-in and resale.
I used to replace my bikes every year or two before I went back to school.
And I wanted a bike that gave the best package, looks, performance(not an issue with almost any bike 99 & up) and value.
 

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Honda just needs to find a good design and win on the track, they seem to be playing "keep up with the Jones' " and they are losing.

Honda is giving the masses what they think we want, not what we ask for. Now they're focusing on MOI. But people are asking for more power and less weight. Now, low MOI might even be the right way to go for laptime (Sport Rider liked less weight on the 600's, but they are just journos) but people aren't gonna buy it. Most people want light weight and rip your arms out power. The new bike is 26 FUCKING POUNDS heavier(and that according to Honda!), and according to testers does not feel appreciably faster than the 954 . This is not good for the masses. Fix these problems, and they won't have these issues.

BTW, this seems to be a corporate culture at Honda. They also make their race bikes very limited in adjustment, riders get what the engineers think they should.

Otherwise, people need to be content buying their version of the best bike (a Honda), and accept that the resale is gonna suck.
 

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I think that they really do need to crack down. Between where i work and live there are 3 honda dealers within short driving distance compaired to yamaha,suzuki,kawi the closest is the honda dealer by my office. I went there a few times and the building was shabby buckets for the roof leaks the selection was piss poor for gear and models The service was terrible. It too 4 weeks to get parts and some were wrong. i know everyone is not perfect so that is not that bad. With all of this i bought tires and they said we don't replace what you don't buy here. That was the last straw especially with their jacked up price. If i didn't have my baby already this place would have made me not want to have anything to do with honda. If i need part or gear even though they are the most convenient i will drive a little further to another stated or closer to home to the honda dealer or say screw it and give the Yamaha dealer that did my inspection and quoted me the price for lockdown.


Sorry for My Rants and thread jacking

1 more grievance with them. Someone at my office has 80 something honda 250 that he used to ride to work everyday buy last season he took it to this guy to get it cleaned up for inspection (turnsignals tires brakes) and the guy refused him and gave him some real jacked up price and told him to get a newer bike. :thumbd:

To me it is people like that that cause honda bike prices to be so bad as well.
 

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I'll weigh in here too and give 1 of my 2 cents...

I think Honda is built on quality. I think that's not the buzz word that crotch-rocket buyers are into. The guys I know want sex or power... You throw on some sexy good looks or some arm-ripping power and your bike is gonna sell. Who looks at the welds? Who looks under the covers? Ok, we do. But does Joe Buyer? I'd say no. I'd say he says, "Dad, Yamaha R1 is the best bike on the market 'cause it'll pick me up the most women. It looks the best standing beside me. Can I borrow your mastercard?" ... OR ... "Gixxer thou has the most power on the market, It's the fastest. I'm not, but the bike is so I'm going to buy it."

Up here, test drives are impossible unless you do a ride-day and all people read are the journo's saying "Wow! That Gixxer is fast." So... what do they buy? Surprise Honda, it's not "Wow! That Honda is built to last 40 years even though you'll only keep it for 2."

Honda makes bikes for me. They hit MY needs on the head and I'll stick with them until they stop making quality bikes that are easy to ride... but that's not the mentality of the masses.
 

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you little phaggots need to quit whining about Honda and their cost and their resale. :stfu: and head over to the Yammie dealership and get ya a new R1 :thumbd:
 

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booth23 said:
you little phaggots need to quit whining about Honda and their cost and their resale. :stfu: and head over to the Yammie dealership and get ya a new R1 :thumbd:
:huh: You don't like to get as much of your money back as possible when upgrading?
 

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sum1 said that if u have to consider the resale value of anything u buy, it means u prolly can't afford it.

....typing w/ 1 hand
 

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Now this is apples to oranges but, Honda automobiles tend to sell for close to MSRP . Honda autos never (that I know of) have factory incentives or rebate offers. And alot of times some of the best equipt models are hard to come by.

Come resale time Honda automobiles tend to hold their value very well, IMO.

:idunno:

Regardless, let them have their Yamahas.
 

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NavSport said:
I think that they really do need to crack down. Between where i work and live there are 3 honda dealers within short driving distance compaired to yamaha,suzuki,kawi the closest is the honda dealer by my office. I went there a few times and the building was shabby buckets for the roof leaks the selection was piss poor for gear and models The service was terrible. It too 4 weeks to get parts and some were wrong. i know everyone is not perfect so that is not that bad. With all of this i bought tires and they said we don't replace what you don't buy here. That was the last straw especially with their jacked up price. If i didn't have my baby already this place would have made me not want to have anything to do with honda. If i need part or gear even though they are the most convenient i will drive a little further to another stated or closer to home to the honda dealer or say screw it and give the Yamaha dealer that did my inspection and quoted me the price for lockdown.


Sorry for My Rants and thread jacking

1 more grievance with them. Someone at my office has 80 something honda 250 that he used to ride to work everyday buy last season he took it to this guy to get it cleaned up for inspection (turnsignals tires brakes) and the guy refused him and gave him some real jacked up price and told him to get a newer bike. :thumbd:

To me it is people like that that cause honda bike prices to be so bad as well.



As far as that sh*t goes, I would take some time to report that dealership to Honda USA and let them fix the poor dealership issues. If they know that that particular dealer is giving Honda a bad image they may revoke their Honda sales and service abilities.
Id give that a shot. All together I would just take my buisness elsewhere.
 

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nomad said:
I'll weigh in here too and give 1 of my 2 cents...

I think Honda is built on quality. I think that's not the buzz word that crotch-rocket buyers are into. The guys I know want sex or power... You throw on some sexy good looks or some arm-ripping power and your bike is gonna sell. Who looks at the welds? Who looks under the covers? Ok, we do. But does Joe Buyer? I'd say no. I'd say he says, "Dad, Yamaha R1 is the best bike on the market 'cause it'll pick me up the most women. It looks the best standing beside me. Can I borrow your mastercard?" ... OR ... "Gixxer thou has the most power on the market, It's the fastest. I'm not, but the bike is so I'm going to buy it."

Up here, test drives are impossible unless you do a ride-day and all people read are the journo's saying "Wow! That Gixxer is fast." So... what do they buy? Surprise Honda, it's not "Wow! That Honda is built to last 40 years even though you'll only keep it for 2."

Honda makes bikes for me. They hit MY needs on the head and I'll stick with them until they stop making quality bikes that are easy to ride... but that's not the mentality of the masses.

The big thing here that I think were all forgetting is that the other bike manufacturers are catching up in quality of build and design. My bros 02 R1 is not built poorly. It performs very well out of the box and is in need of servicing about as often as my 954.
As far the the new Gixxer1k, its a badass bike. the newer 03s are pretty frickin powerfull and are built pretty solid. Ive not heard of any build issues among the newer suzukis. Honda truly needs to listen to its masses and build bikes the way we want them. Not the way there people think we want them. Unfortunately our voices are very faint when reaching the corprate minds at Honda, and so it goes we have an overweight 600cc and 1000cc sport bike with b.s. accessories such as Hondas "electronic steering Dampner" and an ugly look to boot.

*****And Yes boothie as soon as I can get my hands on a 04 R1 in Sly silver I will ;) *****
 

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luvtolean said:
Honda just needs to find a good design and win on the track, they seem to be playing "keep up with the Jones' " and they are losing.

Honda is giving the masses what they think we want, not what we ask for. Now they're focusing on MOI. But people are asking for more power and less weight. Now, low MOI might even be the right way to go for laptime (Sport Rider liked less weight on the 600's, but they are just journos) but people aren't gonna buy it. Most people want light weight and rip your arms out power. The new bike is 26 FUCKING POUNDS heavier(and that according to Honda!), and according to testers does not feel appreciably faster than the 954 . This is not good for the masses. Fix these problems, and they won't have these issues.

BTW, this seems to be a corporate culture at Honda. They also make their race bikes very limited in adjustment, riders get what the engineers think they should.

Otherwise, people need to be content buying their version of the best bike (a Honda), and accept that the resale is gonna suck.
Damn dude out of all the people---you should appreciate what MOI is---Just cuz honda is ALOT smarter than the masses-----and is the ONLY bike manufacturer that can measure it---doesnt mean they should design for them---"testers feel"---doesnt mean shit---they said the exact same thing about the RCV---if Honda wanted more agressive feel they could just shorten the swingarm---the thing would wheelie just like the kwak---and have shitty traction as well (in the front)---Now the weight 2X capacity radiator and a SS exhaust--Ti exhaust rids 20lbs---now you have 4 lbs and 2X the radiator capacity of the comp---all with a lower MOI---longer swingarms-----if Idiots can figure this out---who cares---they always rode GSXRs/R1s anyway
 

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SlvrSurfr said:
The big thing here that I think were all forgetting is that the other bike manufacturers are catching up in quality of build and design. My bros 02 R1 is not built poorly. It performs very well out of the box and is in need of servicing about as often as my 954.
As far the the new Gixxer1k, its a badass bike. the newer 03s are pretty frickin powerfull and are built pretty solid. Ive not heard of any build issues among the newer suzukis. Honda truly needs to listen to its masses and build bikes the way we want them. Not the way there people think we want them. Unfortunately our voices are very faint when reaching the corprate minds at Honda, and so it goes we have an overweight 600cc and 1000cc sport bike with b.s. accessories such as Hondas "electronic steering Dampner" and an ugly look to boot.

*****And Yes boothie as soon as I can get my hands on a 04 R1 in Sly silver I will ;) *****

Amen! Get rid of ESD, Linked Brake and V-Tec bullshit (unproven, expensive, and unnencessary...) and give us some knarly, bare-knuckled (but always reliable...) bikes! The CBR1000RR is defintiely a step in the right direction--I may just have to own one (and I didn't buy the Gixxer 1k this week like I had planned....). :thumb:
 

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Jay said:
They(Honda) are tired of seeing Yamaha product sell out year after year while Honda still has 01 Erions and 02 954's in a Ohio warehouse.QUOTE]
How much those Erion Edition bikes going for :huh: Ive always wanted one :thumb:
 

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929Boomer said:
Damn dude out of all the people---you should appreciate what MOI is---Just cuz honda is ALOT smarter than the masses-----and is the ONLY bike manufacturer that can measure it---doesnt mean they should design for them---"testers feel"---doesnt mean shit---they said the exact same thing about the RCV---if Honda wanted more agressive feel they could just shorten the swingarm---the thing would wheelie just like the kwak---and have shitty traction as well (in the front)---Now the weight 2X capacity radiator and a SS exhaust--Ti exhaust rids 20lbs---now you have 4 lbs and 2X the radiator capacity of the comp---all with a lower MOI---longer swingarms-----if Idiots can figure this out---who cares---they always rode GSXRs/R1s anyway
ahh yes, longer swingarms. Somehow most people missed that point on the 929/954, as it was longer than the R1 without needing to vertically stack the trans. Unfortunately, they seemed to have lost a few points in the rest of the package unless you dialed the suspension to the nines and adopted an "over the front tire" sort of tuck at high speed. I imagine the tire manufacturers are partly liable for this problem, as switching from one "other" brand to the Dunlops eliminated 90% of the "hunt at speed" effect that both Honda and Suzuki have enjoyed over the past 3 years.

I have found Hondas easier to lose weight than any other street platform when converting to a purpose built racebike. Maybe the other guys are lower weight coming in, but when the green flag dropped, my 929 was nearly 20 pounds lighter than a similary prepared GSXR 1000 (much to the amazement of a few Suzuki pundits).
 
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