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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay this is a big question from alot of users. I am pretty new here but not not new to buying.

I am in the Marines and everytime we get back from Iraq all of my boys have me go down to the dealership and negatiate a good deal for them. I buy about 50 bikes a year for the last 3 years or so. Plus I have bought 7 myself in the last 5 years.

Rule one is have a pre approved loan draft, cash, or sitdown in the dealer and get a honda card or gm money bank card without talking anything. Bottom line if you want best price have the means to buy without doing any more talking.



Rule two. Go online on cycletrader. Look up your bike that you want in keyword type OTD, put it in zip code 92277 search within 250 miles. Print out that price sheet. Most dealers already know about OTD, they give a price around MSRP with no other fees. Yes they do sell for that price. OTD prices change month to month some are better than other you will see many on there. Expect a brand new litre bike at about 11,500 or less. And leftovers less than 10,500. Options make a differance too like rarer colors are alittle more.

Record the models they have at the dealers you visit and include the price they gave you OTD. Keep in mind color as its the only option.


Use the dollar amount from Out the Door cyclesports as your barganing tool. Remember if they are selling bikes for nothing more than this it gives you a good idea that this price is still turning a dealer profit.


let him no you have been shopping, tell him your tired of looking around so much, this is the bike you think you like, and you want to buy one right now. Even show him you have the means to do so.

Talk for a while do a little shmoozing it pays off. Sometimes you meet a cool salesman who wants a sale bad. Salesman want to Gauge what your are looking for and if you really are a perpective client.This is also important in letting him no you are not undecided about anything but price and you will not be hasseld. Tell him everything about why you want it, why you dont want others, ignore his bullshit everytime. You dont want a kawasaki because the price matches what you want to pay. Dont argue him just let him no your mind is made up. Let them know you feel comfortable buying were you can keep your business. Saved money now could be profit in the future of a satisfied customer.

5. Hes going to bring up price now. Remember you dont want to finance, you have the means to pay already. You are not concerned with monthly prices, and idiot can figure out the loan amount. You want the OTD price youd be paying cash right now to drive away. Seriously say that exactly.

6. Depending how much his initial price is he will leave for a new price a few times. They will use many reasons why this price is the way it is, if its not even close to the OTD price its not fair value.
7. let him make a few offers that okay and in fact he his told to do it no matter what. You are helping him look good by not getting mad yet. Its when the manager comes that its time for business.


9. They are going to say we really want to keep your business, now you can talk to the manager. He wants to know why you are not buying. Look its simple do you ever see those left over deal for a litre bike at 9700 out the door. Look at the dealer does he have a deal like this. During that time ive been telling you to ignore him he is mostly saying were losing money on it and that it cant be done. Tell him then why is this bike one year old and your selling it for a thousand less than what i want this for. Look dude im not an idiot you just want to make the most off it your not losing anything. OTD cyclesports sells every bike for this price they are making profit. If they are a big dealer they will bite. Just tell him look heres my price 10,500 (example) i will buy right now no questions if you can do it. Believe you are so golden now.

This is how it breaks down, the little dealers will sell for the good price if they dont beleive that they will move all the bikes they have. Therefore the leftover goes for less because they no they have a whole year of selling the new ones. They are harder to sell so they will make less profit to move them, there not losing money. Dealers need money to pay bills plus everyones commision is differant, some get bonus's for differant reasons that is why its important to stay focused on your price. Every dealer knows that the surrounding dealers will sell for this on average so they will try to stick to that. Dont be fooled out of the fair market price.

Expect a brand new 1000 for about 11,000. once its a few month old anywhere from 10,000 to 10,500. If it is selling like crazy you can look at even 11,500.You wil here many prices but alot of people dont add in the tax and fees like reg. The dealer still makes a small profit with a litre bike going for about 9700 everything included. But with plenty of time in the year you will not get it for this. I have seen guys walking out the door with a bike for 14,400. I seen him sign the paper work as i buy two for 10,000. That probably hurt. Now i have only purchased bikes in new york cali and hawaii. Other areas must be close to the same. The bottom line is i have done enough research and enough buying to assure you that is the bottom line price on a litre bike. I have really been there to watch people sign about 200 bikes plus all the quads and jetskis and boats too.

If you have a good question i will answer the best i can, I hope you get my honesty, I am not someone who bought one bike three years ago and tells you i paid 8500 for it. Ive heard it a million times but its not true.
 

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Thanks for the great guide.

So you just say that a local dealer will sell one for the quoted price from otd in cycletrader even though they never said that?

Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey i just read over this sorry it is so long and drawn out, i just was killing some time waiting for my rims to dry.
 

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i got a question for you, what is wrong with a dealership actually making a profit? i work in new car sales and the way you are going about it is all wrong. there is never a need to go to more than 1 or 2 stores. hopefully you have enough common sense to realize that every dealer owns there new inventory for the same money. motorcycles dont sell in enough high volume for one dealer to be able to make a big difference from the next. granted a dealer with multiple franchises may take a loss on a vehicle thats not moving off the floor well.

as far as the dealership making money on stupid deals "your crazy" that little bit of the documentation fee and any hold back that may be there is laughable at best.


its people with the "i gotta have the best price" mentality that are screwing the industry. doesnt the salesperson doing your paperwork, answering all your questions, and practically kissing your arse in the process deserve to earn a living? guess what he only makes money on a % of profit. once that dips to a certain level bye bye commission hello flat. who hoo 75bux in most cases. i have a friend who manages a large big 4 japanese dealership and that is what a flat is for his guys.

granted i know some dealers will lie, cheat, and steal to make a buck but not all. you should be aware of what type of people you are dealing with before you enter the store.

i am also a firm believer if you have to wheel and deal to afford a motorcycle you should stick to driving a car.

not for nothing guys we all know the economy is in the toilet so lets keep making it worse by lowballing everyone into poverty...

to the OP

you sir are working to hard to get a deal you should re title this thread

How to make an arse out of yourself in a retail enviorment.


best way to get best price is to deal directly with a manager directly. dont go wasting a salesmans time playing GAMES which is what this guide suggests.

buying multiple vehicles also helps in getting a great deal.

think im wrong ask crazy freddy hes a dealer who sponsors this forum...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
To imply that if i get a bike for the cheapest price doesn't mean i cant afford it and what type of moron would pay more for an item of his own hard earned money.

If i get my bikes for that price and the dealership is still in business than maybe the salesrep should wonder why it is his pay scale is like that. If you dont make enough sales get out. Its like a waiter saying you should tip the most. dont get me wrong im not trying to take anyone out of business but if you did enough research at prices across the globe you would see what they sell for is not pennies bro,

what does a large dealership that has been around for 20 years pay in electicity a month, please dude if you buy that crap then you just got shot down for a raise.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So its peerfectly normal to see a guy walking out of a dealership paying almost 15000 for a bike that is 11,000 msrp. And what about the 10 dollar jacket that sells for 400 bucks.

If its an honest living why come out with 15000 off the top. why not come with a firm offer across the board that incorporates dealer needed fees and salesman pay to survive.

I guess i should pay double my tax's so the economy dont collapse. I am not the economys problem how much money does the CEO of your dealership pull in a year. thought so
 

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I know a lot of waiters and I know a lot of car salesmen.

Waiters make $3.00 an hour approx. and your tips go for the service they provide. Taking your order, making sure it comes out properly, keeping a clean table, drinks, etc.

What's a car salesmans base? 25-40k a year depending on the dealership, not great money but you can usually make due. When i go to buy a vehicle I already know what I want....you can't upsell me at a dealership. I'm not going to buy a different model, the window tint, the warranty, or in a bikes case I'll put the exhaust and PC on myself unless i get a discount at the dealer. Vehicle sales people are essentially clerks looking to get you to pay the most for what you already want to buy....with very few exceptions. And the only people I want kissing my ass are the people in the service dept. Sales people get their base...screw their commission structure. If they were good sales people, they would negotiate their own compensation better.

So no, screw the salesman, get the best price out there....just because I make a good living doesn't mean I don't work hard for it. And just because I can afford to walk in and buy a new bike (which is going to happen as soon as 09 new model year shock disappears) doesn't mean i want to pay a dime more than I have to.
 

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are you ignorant?

i didnt say pay top dollar or anything like that. a fair deal is anywhere between msrp and cost where both parties benefit. customer gets a deal and salesman earns a decent commission. all your examples are crap. what kind of authority are you on what it cost to run a dealership. a fair profit could be anywhere between 100-1000 dollars over invoice. it doesnt have to be thru the roof.

something tells me before you became a "expert negotiator" someone took you to the cleaners. as far as the 15k off the top comment that salesman has YOUR mentality. hes starting high hoping to land somewhere decent. while not the right way to do business it can be effective or down right catastrophic.


as far as sales goes im doing good. i sell honda's and i hit my annual high volume bonus so no worries here bub...

when i get a "shopper" like yourself i tell him to go shop and bring me his best deal and ill make it better. let him waste everyone elses time and ill still sell the car without having to sit across from a total arsehat for half a day. cause the funny thing is even if you come out with a no profit deal right off the gate its still not enough for some if they havent been to 5 stores and told the same...
 

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GQ,

my base salary is 125 per week plus com. with great benefits

same as the local bike shop salesguys are getting.

not for nothing man you can say what you want about sales people but they are essential. not everyone knows what they want.

remember we can say the same thing about biker gangs just being a bunch o pussy cats that cant stand up for themselves so they have to cart around 30 of there buddys. but you and me know the difference between what seperates a club guy and an outlaw. what makes sales people any different? there will always be good and bad sales people.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I dont shop anywhere i know what fair market price is, that is why i wrote this to give info to those you dont

the rest is just some ideas on how to pass this info to those who dont know on how to get the dealer to agree on FAIR MARKET PRICES.

I walk into a dealer tell him i know that the bike is going for this amount and i know that it is not losing him money, if he agrees i buy it, if not i go elsewhere the bottom line is i always get them at this price. I dont need to hear there bullshit sales pitch im a grown man and i make my own decisions.

Heres a piece of info since nothing i say is credible, why would SUGGESTED retail you know MSRP be at a price that is less than a dealer would make profit on.

Dont be pissed that some unimformed people will have a slightly better idea of how to negatiate down to a price that is the best for both worlds

And i do understand also that the small dealers do not typically try this over the top first offer tactic. They usually must rely on honest sales tactics, As i stated this is usually to combat those incredible large dealers who try to sell everybike in a 1000 mile radius even if its for a dollar, so that he monopolises the market, but i forgot the honest working man the bad guy here.

As far as the cleaners why would you know because you and your buddys laugh at customers you do it to, please I just try to spill a little knowlegde to those that might get cleaned out and your panties get all ruffed up.
Take the sand out of ur clit dude I wasn't sending these guys your way
 

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one hundred percent dude, were you at on the island i grew up in brentwood
Massapequa....Great thread BTW

are you ignorant?

all your examples are crap. what kind of authority are you on what it cost to run a dealership.
Not sure if that's directed at me, BUT. I run one of the sales departments for a major telecommunications company in the tri-state area. I think i have SOME negotiation skills and can figure operating costs for a single location or small chain.

GQ,

my base salary is 125 per week plus com. with great benefits

same as the local bike shop salesguys are getting.
Sorry to hear that...guess NJ doesn't pay near what Long Island does. i hope your commission structure kicks the :poop: out of some the guys I know in Dodge (used dodge.. might be different than new Honda), Nissan, Mercedes, and Landrover. I know a guy sold Fords...he got 450 a week, all the others kept giving him grief until he quit.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
GQ,

my base salary is 125 per week plus com. with great benefits

same as the local bike shop salesguys are getting.

not for nothing man you can say what you want about sales people but they are essential. not everyone knows what they want.

remember we can say the same thing about biker gangs just being a bunch o pussy cats that cant stand up for themselves so they have to cart around 30 of there buddys. but you and me know the difference between what seperates a club guy and an outlaw. what makes sales people any different? there will always be good and bad sales people.

Dude didn't i mention in that novel somewhere to be nice to the sales guy as many of them you will find are cool, maybe i should of clearified (you know i know everything i want to say but explaining the whole situation is tough)

The managers in the large firms dont allow the sales reps to negatiate the final price I know that and i said let the sales guy go about his business it makes him look like he is performing his job. If the company is not paying commision on the price I am paying that is the companys fault. Everyone has to earn a living including the sales guy and the buyer.
 

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i have never taken anyone to the cleaners. the dealer network that i am employed by is known to never sell any vehicle over msrp. buying anything over msrp is stupid. ill even agree and say sales pitches are crap. i dont use them. good thing about selling brand spanking new hondas is people already know its one of the best products you can get for the money. no pitch needed.


all i was initially saying is why go thru all those motions wasting time just get to the nitty gritty and talk to a manager if u must have the best possible deal.

in your first post you are telling people to lie and be rude. your a class act! just dont lie about being in the military...lol honest working man!

btw could you edit your post so it can be read easier
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Tatto GQ, thanks for the props man, I wasn't looking to talk **** to any sales reps, I ride with some guys and keep in contact with others that i have bought from ya know, the bottom line is cuz i make a certain amount a month does that mean i hand some to someone who doesn't.

Let me just jay this one more time this article was not meant to bash guys who earn a living selling bikes, nor do i think they are evil. And in some cases guys go into a dealership totally unsure of what they want and impulsive, So go ahead make your cash on them, Some guys on this forum where asking some questions as to how to negatiate and grab on to the prices I get my bikes for. Why wouldn't i try to give them some info, I thought thats what this site is about.

Ride till you die
 

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Massapequa....Great thread BTW



Not sure if that's directed at me, BUT. I run one of the sales departments for a major telecommunications company in the tri-state area. I think i have SOME negotiation skills and can figure operating costs for a single location or small chain

Sorry to hear that...guess NJ doesn't pay near what Long Island does. i hope your commission structure kicks the :poop: out of some the guys I know in Dodge (used dodge.. might be different than new Honda), Nissan, Mercedes, and Landrover. I know a guy sold Fords...he got 450 a week, all the others kept giving him grief until he quit.

not directed at you, we get bonus for volume so i consistantly sell 15-20+ cars a month to make a decent salary.

i move more cages than a circus
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Look man im sure your company is reputable, but have you ever shoped in a Giant Bike megastore.

I bought nearly 100 bikes for myself and friends from Chaparral motorsports, they take care of me everytime, but everytime i go in there, even if its two days later they give me the same pitch, same slogans, i am just trying to give the average buyer awareness to the situation at hand, from a perspective I have encountered. No this is not my usuall time in a dealership, but why would i need to explain how to get a good price from an honest dealership. I thought i gave enough examples to not be rude, and i think maybe my sentiment did not come off correctly in my writing. I am just a dumb grunt in the marine corps my writing sucks okay. I gave examples of not to start fights and yell because that does nothing.

The bottom line is they will try to make the most money, we will try to save the most, that is how these games work. Do i bargin with best buy on a television set, no its set in stone, bikes and cars are not.

If i haven't clearified my view a little better by now maybe you read this and really know that as a dealer i am giving away to much info on getting a good price.:rotfl: . Just kidding man, and your right the title should have said how not to get taken, and get a fair price for your bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Also I dont feel the need to waste anyones time, remember i said depending on what that first price is will adjust accordingly. These was just a good sum of info if you walk in and they offer 11,700 off the bat obviously your negatiating should be much more simpler. Can you agree

And yes even guys who pop out 15000 off the bat will go down to 10700.

I dont know how to edit, and this was the second time i wrote the post that night.
 

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your examples were pretty rough.

i totally get your point of view just the execution was way way off.

btw you can negotiate on tv's

i just bought a 50 inch plasma and i negotiated with them my sony hd died unexpectedly 2yrs off warrantee

msrp for tv 2999
store price 2299

i got the tv for 1791 including tax showing the clerk my best online price plus shipping

1791 for a top of the line panasonic plasma im happy!
 

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So Shakey are you saying that going to the manager will get you the best price, but if you want to pay more then stick with a salesperson?

That's interesting since I helped my gf buy her 2008 ninja 250r in september of 2007. The salesperson wanted $4800 OTD for the $3500 mrsp ninja. I went back in after talking with all of the dealers in the state with a better idea of price. I happended to get the manager and he offered me otd $3800 without any negotiating or mention of how much the other dealers wanted. He was just $50 over the lowest price I could negotiate with the rest of the dealers in the state. Needless to say I was quite happy with this and will buy more bikes from him in the future.
 
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