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Discussion Starter #41


We took the timing rotor cap off and shifted through the gears and tried the clutch out while rotating the engine over. Turn clockwise. And you don't have to go fast... it just helps you shift.


Then you can wrap up by putting the hoses on







There's pics all around the CBR 954 engine
 

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To remove the 30mm clutch center nut you have to hold the clutch basket steady... you can make a template like this and create one out of flat steel yourself without too much trouble.


Use all five clutch bolts to hold the tool onto the clutch center.

If your clutch center hub was as worn as this one all five tabs might break off at once... the notches in the studs happens from the rider chopping on throttle abrubtly and frequently.

with the studs broke off we tried to get the nut off by notching it with a grinder

And hitting the notched out area

The posts didn't break because they were worn, they broke off because you tried to put lateral force through them.
Never, ever try to hold the clutch hub using the spring posts - I would've thought most manuals would point that out.
Get an old clutch plate and weld an arm to it.

Or better still, put the engine in gear and stand on the rear brake while it's still in the bike. Or simply use a rattle gun as it will generally crack the nut loose even while the hub is spinning.
 

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valid point:) the other clutch center holders are your best bet. It's what I had, it's worked up to this point:)

Reading further I noticed you used the same technique to reinstall the nut, not good. If you used a rattle gun though rather than trying to manually torque the nut you might be okay as it puts less force through the posts. The posts only function in straight tension and are far too small to take any lateral force, especially not force applied right at their ends. If they break off during use the reason will be because they were overloaded this way during installation.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but up to this point it's an outstanding contribution Matt :)
 

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The clutch bolts need medium strength thread lock... don't forget the washers that go along to.

It goes without saying to torque any part with multiple bolts in a alternating pattern one across from the other one by one.

These clutch bolts only need 12Nm of torque

Don't forget to re-bolt the cam chain tensioner guide bolt.

Never Loktite the clutch spring bolts - where did you read it specifying a locking compound?
 

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Then for the clutch side of the engine:


First re-install the plate, the three bolts get 12Nm of torque

Then you can slide the drive collar, chain, and oil pump sprocket on

You can torque down the oil pump sprocket to 15Nm by putting a screw driver through one of the holes like this

Please tell me that you _did_ Loktite the five bearing retaining bolts and the oil pump drive gear bolt?
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Yep, thread lock everything:) I repeated it 3 times I believe:) It's common sense... there's no harm to doing the clutch bolts too.

As far as the posts not taking any lateral tension... That's all the posts do is handle lateral tension:p Same for the clutch housing.

Check this out: this guy had a broken clutch basket post... he thought he could get by with 4 out of 5 clutch posts.... needless to say it worked for a little while before the lateral tension of the power from the engine through the clutch posts to the trans caused the rest of them to snap:


It's also why the RC51 has six hub posts and the CBRs only have five... it makes way more torque... same for the 1300 GSXr compared to the smaller gsxrs or the Kawasaki 1400 compared to the smaller ninja's, or the other end of the spectrum, most scooters and 250cc bikes only have 4 posts... on and on, more power: you need more posts.

I'm sure the tool that holds the clutch basket by the spars instead of the posts is a better idea. However, the posts only snapped when we had to litterally strap the engine to the table, to men hold the engine and table steady while a third guy with a breaker bar with a four foot pole on the thing for leverage was putting most of his weight on the bar... I don't know how much torque that was... but it was probably over 500Nm...

Long story short, the hub posts snapped because we didn't use an impact wrench to undo the nut... not because the posts are weak (they aren't).
 

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Yep, thread lock everything:) I repeated it 3 times I believe:) It's common sense... there's no harm to doing the clutch bolts too.

As far as the posts not taking any lateral tension... That's all the posts do is handle lateral tension:p Same for the clutch housing.

Check this out: this guy had a broken clutch basket post... he thought he could get by with 4 out of 5 clutch posts.... needless to say it worked for a little while before the lateral tension of the power from the engine through the clutch posts to the trans caused the rest of them to snap:


It's also why the RC51 has six hub posts and the CBRs only have five... it makes way more torque... same for the 1300 GSXr compared to the smaller gsxrs or the Kawasaki 1400 compared to the smaller ninja's, or the other end of the spectrum, most scooters and 250cc bikes only have 4 posts... on and on, more power: you need more posts.

I'm sure the tool that holds the clutch basket by the spars instead of the posts is a better idea. However, the posts only snapped when we had to litterally strap the engine to the table, to men hold the engine and table steady while a third guy with a breaker bar with a four foot pole on the thing for leverage was putting most of his weight on the bar... I don't know how much torque that was... but it was probably over 500Nm...

Long story short, the hub posts snapped because we didn't use an impact wrench to undo the nut... not because the posts are weak (they aren't).

The only lateral force the posts take is from the negligable weight of the spring coils bending against them when going on and off throttle (this is what wears the marks in the posts), they do not take any lateral loading from engine torque, except in some clutch designs, at the very base of the posts - certainly never at their ends. The posts are entirely in tension to keep the springs compressed to hold the clutch together. Using the posts to try to hold the clutch to undo the nut will not work unless you are extremely lucky, and even then they would likely be weakened during the attempt. More to the point though, the right way of loosening the nut is _far_ easier and quicker, and with no likelyhood of damaging anything. Either use a rattle gun, or put the transmission in gear and hold the countershaft sprocket.

The clutch spring bolts have no need for a thread locking compound as they are held tight by the springs. Using such a compound only increases the chances of breaking a post next time you disassemble it. There aren't many instances where it's fine to LokTite things that don't specify it, so don't do it. I also just noticed that the photo appears to show that you used a locking compound on the clutch nut as well? I hope not. The manual clearly states to use _oil_ to lubricate the nut threads, not locking compound.

The RC51 makes no more torque than any other litre-class sportsbike engine. The more power the engine makes, the heavier the clutch springs need to be, and the more posts you need.

Long story short - the posts snapped off because you tried to use them to hold the hub in place, which is never going to work. I _strongly_ suggest you explain in this "how to" that the posts should _never_ be loaded in this way.

I had another look and a still don't see any mention of LokTiting the bearing retainer bolts or oil pump drive gear bolt. These are important, not because they tend to come loose, but because of the damage resulting _if_ they do.
I suggest you edit the thread to make clear mention of this for anybody using this as a reference instead of a workshop manual.
 

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i recently tore my 02 954 all the way down and have run into an assembly question. on the gear selector shaft there is a washer and im almost certain that is goes inside the case and not outside with the foot selector but for some reason there is a small amount of doubt. so i figured I would ask you since ive been using your write up as a guide. any and all help is greatly appreciated. thanks
 

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i recently tore my 02 954 all the way down and have run into an assembly question. on the gear selector shaft there is a washer and im almost certain that is goes inside the case and not outside with the foot selector but for some reason there is a small amount of doubt. so i figured I would ask you since ive been using your write up as a guide. any and all help is greatly appreciated. thanks

You don't have a manual?
 

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Yes but to me it is unclear. It shows the shaft outside of the motor with the washer in the middle of the shaft and it doesnt have the normal assembly lines. Maybe they are there and I just have a bad copy. Either way I just thought I would ask to be sure.
 

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Yes but to me it is unclear. It shows the shaft outside of the motor with the washer in the middle of the shaft and it doesnt have the normal assembly lines. Maybe they are there and I just have a bad copy. Either way I just thought I would ask to be sure.

You should have the return spring on the shaft up against the shift claws, then the washer sits against the spring, then the circlip, then install the shaft into the engine.
 

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You should have the return spring on the shaft up against the shift claws, then the washer sits against the spring, then the circlip, then install the shaft into the engine.

Actually, that doesn't sound right to me.
I would think the washer would sit against the aluminium case to protect it from the circlip.
Try it both ways first to see which is correct.
 

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Can you please share the photo how to remove the lower timing chain sprocket as I do not know hot to remove thank you
Take the ignition rotor off, take tension off the cam chain, take chain off sprocket, sprocket should slide off end of shaft. It did on my 93 900RR.
 

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Thank you very much Ian Doohan,
As i try to remove the bolt (Pic one inside the circle) the ignition rotor also rotors when I turn the bolt, How to loose that bolt, or Do I need to use the screw driver as the Pic two, to hold the ignition rotor
 

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