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Discussion Starter #1
Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
 

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Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
Mika_U's top case - CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners





 

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Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
I have used Millennium before, they did my 900 (the one in my sig) and have heard great things from a racer buddy/shop owner who raves about US Chrome. I'd say call them both, and see which falls in your budget and schedule becasue they both do quality work.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wow. Ok. Thanks for the information/replies.

I'll have to go through both builds to get some more information. FWIW, I'm not planning on a crazy overbore with bigger pistons, I'm simply looking to rebuild back to (or marginally better than) factory specs.

Thanks for the help.

John
 

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Wow. Ok. Thanks for the information/replies.

I'll have to go through both builds to get some more information. FWIW, I'm not planning on a crazy overbore with bigger pistons, I'm simply looking to rebuild back to (or marginally better than) factory specs.

Thanks for the help.

John
The link is just to the thread were a pictures of my casing trashed by millenium. They didn't ever do anything to compensate the damage they made or try to fix it. It was repaired here locally but the Finnish shop that was the middle man on this paid the bill for fixing the upper case. They just said somebody had machined the casing after them. Which i seriously doubt.
They send the casing packed to Schnitz racing who sent it to Finland.

Haven't personally used u.s. chrome but would prefer it anytime over millenium. I still get angry just thinking about it.
 

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The link is just to the thread were a pictures of my casing trashed by millenium. They didn't ever do anything to compensate the damage they made or try to fix it. It was repaired here locally but the Finnish shop that was the middle man on this paid the bill for fixing the upper case. They just said somebody had machined the casing after them. Which i seriously doubt.
They send the casing packed to Schnitz racing who sent it to Finland.

Haven't personally used u.s. chrome but would prefer it anytime over millenium. I still get angry just thinking about it.
Oh man, that sucks, I have had nothing but good luck with them, but after seeing your fiasco, I will think twice about them in the future. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah, I read the whole post and gathered that Millennium did the work but I didn't see a post to see how it was resolved. Sorry to hear about your situation.

I did call Jason Ferrell this afternoon and am hoping to get the ball rolling quickly here. Really want to get the bike back together and enjoy some Fall riding.

I'm also considering just buying a used case and building around that (as long as the cylinder bores are good).
 

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Yeah, I read the whole post and gathered that Millennium did the work but I didn't see a post to see how it was resolved. Sorry to hear about your situation.

I did call Jason Ferrell this afternoon and am hoping to get the ball rolling quickly here. Really want to get the bike back together and enjoy some Fall riding.

I'm also considering just buying a used case and building around that (as long as the cylinder bores are good).
It was welded and machined here in Finland. And the bores were re-honed. The shop i ordered the service paid the bill. Millenium never admitted their **** up or paid anything. It's the upper casing of my 980cc 954.
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/honda-fireblade/109067-my-cbr-954-980cc-build-dyno-run-few-pics.html

You won't find casings that would have the bores in good condition. It's typical for Hondas alusil to have scoring.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Good information Mika. Thank you.

You mentioned Alusil. Is that the coating that is on the cylinder walls that's breaking down? Is the coating that US Chrome (and others...) more durable than stock? It seems to me that an engine with 12k miles shouldn't look this bad.

John
 

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Good information Mika. Thank you.

You mentioned Alusil. Is that the coating that is on the cylinder walls that's breaking down? Is the coating that US Chrome (and others...) more durable than stock? It seems to me that an engine with 12k miles shouldn't look this bad.

John
It isn't a coating. It's hypereutectic aluminium that is etched to expose silicon in it that should be sliding surface for rings and skirts.
Alusil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicasil that U.S. Chrome, Millenium and all of the big manufacturers use/apply on their newer bikes is a coating. It's much better. It's harder, doesn't need coated skirts and special rings and isn't so sensitive. On the alusil the piston skirt coating needs just to wear little bit and there is aluminium against aluminium and the scoring starts. Porsche has used alusil a long time but only one apparently that knows how to plate the piston skirts right is Mahle. Other manufacturers plating wears of or starts to flake of.
 

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yeah ive never seen a 954 block split that didnt have some level of scoring on it. ive never used either place but ive read a lot of threads with people who have used u.s. chrome and have been happy with the results. apparently they are very competitively priced as well from what ive read.
 

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yeah ive never seen a 954 block split that didnt have some level of scoring on it. ive never used either place but ive read a lot of threads with people who have used u.s. chrome and have been happy with the results. apparently they are very competitively priced as well from what ive read.
U.S. Chromes list prices are few bucks cheaper then Milleniums and they are the only ones i know that can do the 954 cylinders/casing. I've seen 5 954 casings in real life and maybe 10 sale ads + all the questions what to do with this and project topics and all have the same scoring from the piston skirts. Never seen a one without that scoring.
 

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U.S. Chromes list prices are few bucks cheaper then Milleniums and they are the only ones i know that can do the 954 cylinders/casing. I've seen 5 954 casings in real life and maybe 10 sale ads + all the questions what to do with this and project topics and all have the same scoring from the piston skirts. Never seen a one without that scoring.
yeah ill be interested to see the pictures of his. im not saying they arent the reason its not running because who knows but with those low a miles and like you said its on pretty much every 954 i kinda doubt they really need to be done.

im sure if you didnt already know to expect that scoring tho it probably looks a lot worse than it really is. i remember the first one i saw split n was like wow! thats a problem! when it really wasnt as bad as i thought just by looking at it.

you mentioned getting a new used case n building from that but you can expect those same scoring marks on pretty much any used case your going to find. these bikes have been known to go 100,000 miles n never needing them re-plated n you know they have them.

but if say a piece of sleeve broke loose of part of a valve guide or something n got in there it could have gouged the walls being a problem of coarse.

you said you got even compression readings on all cylinders?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The compression readings were fairly consistent across all 4. #1 was 65 psi, #2 and #3 were 70 psi, and #4 was 65 psi.

When I put oil in the #1 cylinder the compression shot up to 150 psi which would be acceptable but there is so much other stuff that needs to be done it's just easier to go through the whole thing.

I'll take some pics and post them online for review.

From an oiling perspective, the cam and head looks good but separately the lower case will tell a different story.

Thanks for the help.


John
 

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I have the same scoring issue on my 954 with 10,000 miles and I am sending my top case and pistons to US Chrome for the cylinder coating and the piston skirt coating. I plan to do this as soon as it starts to get cold out. I talked to both companies and US Chrome seemed to be more professional and answered all of my questions. Millennium did not really seem interested and told me to send in my case and pistons then they will talk to me.

I understand their are extra things that may need to be done to get the casing right again, but millennium could have took a couple minutes to talk to me. Then I seen mika's case and that was it. I have seen other US Chrome cases after and they all look good. I am also just trying to keep everything stock and just make it better. A picture of my scoring, and she is a smoker but it may not be the rings and the scoring that is causing that.


 

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I have the same scoring issue on my 954 with 10,000 miles and I am sending my top case and pistons to US Chrome for the cylinder coating and the piston skirt coating. I plan to do this as soon as it starts to get cold out. I talked to both companies and US Chrome seemed to be more professional and answered all of my questions. Millennium did not really seem interested and told me to send in my case and pistons then they will talk to me.

I understand their are extra things that may need to be done to get the casing right again, but millennium could have took a couple minutes to talk to me. Then I seen mika's case and that was it. I have seen other US Chrome cases after and they all look good. I am also just trying to keep everything stock and just make it better. A picture of my scoring, and she is a smoker but it may not be the rings and the scoring that is causing that.


Where the valve stem seals changed, guides measured/reamed and the valve stem diameters measured?

I mentioned on the previous post that i seen 5 954 casings in real life and all of them had scoring. Well 3 of them are back together with nothing done to the casings and piston. 3 of them had gearboxes failure and 2 of these engines have been working for 1-2 years now with changed used gearboxes. Both my friends bikes. And 1 of them my friend still has for spare parts. 1 was my own bike which i re-built. And 1 of these 5 engines was another spare engine my friend had with something wrong in the head. My friend sold the casings and pistons after he took the gearbox from it and the buyer put it back together with hes crank, head, gearbox etc. The buyers pistons and bores were in much worse condition. And only one of these engines had piston slap and that was mine. And even my engines cylinder compression were in the specs Honda gives and didn't smoke or consume oil. The rings seem to seal somehow to the alusil very good even with the scoring. My bores and pistons were way out of spec and the bores had taper and certainly weren't round and still the rings sealed.
 

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Where the valve stem seals changed, guides measured/reamed and the valve stem diameters measured?

I mentioned on the previous post that i seen 5 954 casings in real life and all of them had scoring. Well 3 of them are back together with nothing done to the casings and piston. 3 of them had gearboxes failure and 2 of these engines have been working for 1-2 years now with changed used gearboxes. Both my friends bikes. And 1 of them my friend still has for spare parts. 1 was my own bike which i re-built. And 1 of these 5 engines was another spare engine my friend had with something wrong in the head. My friend sold the casings and pistons after he took the gearbox from it and the buyer put it back together with hes crank, head, gearbox etc. The buyers pistons and bores were in much worse condition. And only one of these engines had piston slap and that was mine. And even my engines cylinder compression were in the specs Honda gives and didn't smoke or consume oil. The rings seem to seal somehow to the alusil very good even with the scoring. My bores and pistons were way out of spec and the bores had taper and certainly weren't round and still the rings sealed.
I will send you a PM so I don't thread jack.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
No issues. Thank you for the information. I know which way I'm leading and hope to get this worked on asap.

BTW, your cylinders look amazing compared to mine.
 
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