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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I had a chat to a Honda Tech the other day in regards to the 1000RR Speedo recall (Aussie bikes are not affected as previously suspected due too them not having a miles toggle feature) and also about the alleged Pinging problems.

Basically what I was told, as I swam in a sea of jargon which I struggled to understand, was that because (and stop me if it doesn't make sense as a result of my interpretation) due to the 1000RR engine have a smaller skirt on the pistons there CAN be a noise come from the engine under certain select circumstances (he described a low rev, high gear roll-on procedure to recreate) the engine can make some noise but that's to be expected as a result of the design of the engine and the power it contains. Apparently the skirt is 1/3 the size of a normal skirt to improve the engine somehow (I wish I had of taken in and understood more of what he was taking about :crap: ).

But basically it is a non issue, and the pinging would not be heard while at idle but that there maybe 1000RRs that are having isolated problems (after all not even Honda is perfect). He also said that they have all the racing Techs downstairs and they have hand NO engine issues AT ALL even with them pushing them as hard as they do.

He was saying the same as what the more level heads here at the .org were saying about the Pinging issues. And he was actually quite impressed with the content on out little site, but he wasn’t as impressed with 1000rr.net offerings on the Pinging non-issue. So it looks like the 1000rr.net guys are doing a pretty good impersonation of Chicken Little and have to look at other causes to find a solution.

I just want to say again that I'm paraphrasing all this stuff, no quoting, so it could be completely wrong. My apologies to my new Honda Tech mate and other Tech heads out there if I'm off the mark. Enlighten away!! :nod:

P.S. After my chat I realised I need to get up to speed on all the jargon and basic mechanics of the bike so I booked myself into a MB maintenance short course today. I'm ready to get all learned. :badidea:
 

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matt232 said:
I had a chat to a Honda Tech the other day in regards to the 1000RR Speedo recall (Aussie bikes are not affected as previously suspected due too them not having a miles toggle feature) and also about the alleged Pinging problems.

Basically what I was told, as I swam in a sea of jargon which I struggled to understand, was that because (and stop me if it doesn't make sense as a result of my interpretation) due to the 1000RR engine have a smaller skirt on the pistons there CAN be a noise come from the engine under certain select circumstances (he described a low rev, high gear roll-on procedure to recreate) the engine can make some noise but that's to be expected as a result of the design of the engine and the power it contains. Apparently the skirt is 1/3 the size of a normal skirt to improve the engine somehow (I wish I had of taken in and understood more of what he was taking about :crap: ).

But basically it is a non issue, and the pinging would not be heard while at idle but that there maybe 1000RRs that are having isolated problems (after all not even Honda is perfect). He also said that they have all the racing Techs downstairs and they have hand NO engine issues AT ALL even with them pushing them as hard as they do.

He was saying the same as what the more level heads here at the .org were saying about the Pinging issues. And he was actually quite impressed with the content on out little site, but he wasn’t as impressed with 1000rr.net offerings on the Pinging non-issue. So it looks like the 1000rr.net guys are doing a pretty good impersonation of Chicken Little and have to look at other causes to find a solution.

I just want to say again that I'm paraphrasing all this stuff, no quoting, so it could be completely wrong. My apologies to my new Honda Tech mate and other Tech heads out there if I'm off the mark. Enlighten away!! :nod:

P.S. After my chat I realised I need to get up to speed on all the jargon and basic mechanics of the bike so I booked myself into a MB maintenance short course today. I'm ready to get all learned. :badidea:
Is that the course they do at Holmesglen Tafe? I did one there last year. A lot more theory and less practical that I expected but quite interesting. Just wish I could remember the name of the guy that ran it......
 

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Hmm... short skirt + low RPM engine overload = extra noise which is OK? :huh:

Geez, I hope so, because that (no pun intended) sounds a little worrysome. Cylinder rounding, anyone? Of course, these engines were not intended to be lugged on a regular basis, quite the opposite, in fact, so maybe the people having the problem should remember to drop a gear or two before getting on the gas :idunno:

Shorter skirts, amongst other things, make for lighter pistons, and so have less reciprocating mass, more efficiency, faster piston speeds (higher revs), etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the pistons, at max revs, weren't approaching supersonic speeds... it's too early in the morning to whip out the physics formulas, but I bet one of our resident engineers could come up with a pretty good estimate on the speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ND4SPD said:
If this is a paraphrase, I'd hate to see the whole thing typed out.
It was a good 20 minute chat we had, lots of stuff was covered. Summarised as best I could, Just hope I've got it right.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
18percent said:
Is that the course they do at Holmesglen Tafe? I did one there last year. A lot more theory and less practical that I expected but quite interesting. Just wish I could remember the name of the guy that ran it......

Thats the one, happened upon it today, seemed like too much of a co-incidence to pass up. According to the website where I booked my place the guys name is Hugh Smith. Same guy?

http://www.shortcourses.holmesglen.vic.edu.au/detail.cfm?ID=MM080
 

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Discussion Starter #7
2OHOH2954 said:
Hmm... short skirt + low RPM engine overload = extra noise which is OK? :huh:

Geez, I hope so, because that (no pun intended) sounds a little worrysome. Cylinder rounding, anyone? Of course, these engines were not intended to be lugged on a regular basis, quite the opposite, in fact, so maybe the people having the problem should remember to drop a gear or two before getting on the gas :idunno:

Shorter skirts, amongst other things, make for lighter pistons, and so have less reciprocating mass, more efficiency, faster piston speeds (higher revs), etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the pistons, at max revs, weren't approaching supersonic speeds... it's too early in the morning to whip out the physics formulas, but I bet one of our resident engineers could come up with a pretty good estimate on the speed.
Less weight etc sounds familiar as the reason for it. But what is the skirt, am I correct if I say its the same as item 2 on the below microfiche? Is it the width/diameter or the height of the it you are refering to when you say the skirt is shorter?

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_0444/crankshaft_-_piston/crankshaft_-_piston.cfm

Got to remember, pretty un-learned on this stuff best to use as may pictures are possible. :D
 

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The skirt is the lower part of the piston, a shorter skirt gives less friction so you do not loose as much hp due to internal friction in the engine, but it can create more engine noise and sometimes more oil burning
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ratter said:
The skirt is the lower part of the piston, a shorter skirt gives less friction so you do not loose as much hp due to internal friction in the engine, but it can create more engine noise and sometimes more oil burning
So basically its a design trade off thing. With a short skirt the engine is more efficient/powerful due to the reduced weight but has potential to make more noise burn oil verses teh other end of the sliding scale, a longer skirt, which will have less noise but will have to overcome the greater friction so not as efficient. So you just have to find the sweet spot between the two extremes of a too long skirt and too short skirt, sound right?
 

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matt232 said:
Less weight etc sounds familiar as the reason for it. But what is the skirt, am I correct if I say its the same as item 2 on the below microfiche? Is it the width/diameter or the height of the it you are refering to when you say the skirt is shorter?

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_0444/crankshaft_-_piston/crankshaft_-_piston.cfm

Got to remember, pretty un-learned on this stuff best to use as may pictures are possible. :D
The 2 in the fiche literally points to the skirt (it's meant to point at the whole piston, but the line itself touches the skirt). It's basically the part of the piston found below the piston rings.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
2OHOH2954 said:
The 2 in the fiche literally points to the skirt (it's meant to point at the whole piston, but the line itself touches the skirt). It's basically the part of the piston found below the piston rings.
gotcha. thanks! :thumb:
 

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matt232 said:
Thats the one, happened upon it today, seemed like too much of a co-incidence to pass up. According to the website where I booked my place the guys name is Hugh Smith. Same guy?

http://www.shortcourses.holmesglen.vic.edu.au/detail.cfm?ID=MM080
Thats him. I suspect youll see a GasGas bike for the practical demo - cant remember if it was a MX or Motard tho (not that theyre not seriously related :) ). I think the words 'Suck,Squish,Bang,Blow' are about to make an appearance in your future - even if you dont pick up over the long weekend :D. I enjoyed the course for what its worth.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Purpdust said:
"Shorter skirts, amongst other things, make for lighter pistons"

No Kidding, I could have told you that

Now now boys, no need to fight over my attentions. :D
 

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Is 4500rpm at 1/3 throttle considered 'lugging' on this bike? Don't think so. I can get the 'noise' upto that rpm even in the lower gears. Since the noise doesn't change as a function of octane, maybe it is piston skirt slap. Either way, glad I don't have to worry about melting a piston.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow!!!!! :thumb:

had the first session at the course last night very informative!!!
 
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