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Discussion Starter #1
Here in Houston, there's a story about two teen boys, one 15 and one 14, who agreed to settle some long-running disputes the old fashoined way, with a fist fight. It only lasted one punch though, as the 14 year old landed the first punch, which put the 15 year old on the pavement. The downed kid died as a result of hitting his head upon falling. The coroner has ruled the death a homicide, and it looks like he may be charged with some degree of manslaughter.

What do y'all think the kid should get?
 

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Sounds like an honest accident. He didn't intentionally kill him, hence the manslaughter charge.

Maybe Juvee will help the kid. He could still have some hope. Don't really know the story though ... what were they fighting over?
 

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Pete said:
What do y'all think the kid should get?
Golden Gloves????:idunno: Sounds like an accident, if the were both willing to fight, they both accepted the risks. Now if one had suckerpuched the guy that would be a different story.
 

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Totally a freak accident. Kids do that shit every day. I feel sorry for both the victim and his friends/relatives, and the kid who punched him - he will have to live with that for the rest of his life. I am giving the perp the benefit of the doubt that he is not some incorrigible, scumbag gangbanger, in which case I hope he fries.
 

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Two lives ruined instead of one.

I don't have enough info to form a real picture of what happened but I doubt justice would be served by locking a 14 year old up. That'll teach him to have faith in the system...
 

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G-Force Junkie said:
Golden Gloves????:idunno: Sounds like an accident, if the were both willing to fight, they both accepted the risks. Now if one had suckerpuched the guy that would be a different story.
Here Here, well said Junkie. I agree.

All this does remind me of something Ron White said on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. He said "Most States are trying to abolish The Death Penalty, my State is putting in an express lane".
 

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Newfie TLR said:
Here Here, well said Junkie. I agree.

All this does remind me of something Ron White said on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. He said "Most States are trying to abolish The Death Penalty, my State is putting in an express lane".
I heard that too.... LOL

FWIW....Texas does not give any larger percentage of criminals the death sentence than any other state with the death penalty....they are about average. They do however follow thru on a larger percentage of sentences given.
 

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nomad said:
Two lives ruined instead of one.

I don't have enough info to form a real picture of what happened but I doubt justice would be served by locking a 14 year old up. That'll teach him to have faith in the system...
Well, certainly there needs to be SOME form of justice system intervention and consequence here, doesn't there?

There are legions of kids who get through all of junior high and high school without ever getting into a fistfight. Even at 14 or 15 years of age, a person knows (or should know) that the logical outcome of a fight could include injury to one or both persons. Perhaps not death, but injury is highly predictable - beating the other kid up is the whole point.

I'm not for locking this boy up and tossing away the key, but I can't simply chalk it up to "kids being kids" - a set of parents lost a child, after all. It's not an "honest mistake" or something that can be chalked up to fate.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This is the one article that has the most detail, but it's not much to go by...

(2/24/04 - SUGAR LAND) — Authorities in Fort Bend County will decide soon whether to charge a teen involved in a deadly fist fight.
Sugar Land police say Frederick Conner fell after being punched by a 14-year-old boy. Conner had to be taken to the hospital where he died two weeks later.
Police are now investigating the fight as a homicide and say they'll have to interview a couple more witnesses before considering any charges against the 14-year-old. Police say he could face charges ranging from aggravated assault to manslaughter. An attorney for the suspect says his client is broken up over the incident.
"My client didn't want to fight," said the suspect’s attorney, Mickele Daniels. "He’s an honor student, very well mannered, very polite and tried to avoid the fight. He didn't want to fight."
Medical records show it wasn't the punch that killed Conner, but injuries he suffered when he hit his head on the ground.
 

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If the "suspect" truly wanted to avoid the fight and this was a self-defense issue (yep, even a pre-emptive strike can be legally ruled as self defense under certain conditions), then everything I said in my first post in this thread changes . . .
 

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G-Force Junkie said:
Now if one had suckerpuched the guy that would be a different story.
I agree. As long as it was a fair fight then I think the kid should be let off the hook - sounds like an honest accident.
 

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Pete said:

Medical records show it wasn't the punch that killed Conner, but injuries he suffered when he hit his head on the ground.
Is that something like if your parachute doesn't open, it's not the fall that kills ya, it's that sudden stop??
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Chain said:
If the "suspect" truly wanted to avoid the fight and this was a self-defense issue (yep, even a pre-emptive strike can be legally ruled as self defense under certain conditions), then everything I said in my first post in this thread changes . . .
According to the media, the authorities are still collecting statements from witnesses.

I just know how many times this could have happened to me growing up, and no, we never thought about the possibilities of serious injury or death when we were duking it out, so I'm leaning towards the side that says the kid should not be charged (at least until further evidence is brought out).

I have always taught my son not to start a fight, but to never shy away from defending himself or a friend if need be, which is why I took such an interest in this incident.

Chain, there's one thing in your statement that did jump out at me, since I'm playing this thing through my head in both "what if" directions, (what if my son was the one who threw the punch or what if my son was the one who died), and that's where you said "a set of parents lost a child." IMO, as sad as it is, just because the parents lost a child does not automatically mean that someone has to go to jail. I realize you qualified your comments in your subsequent post, but that comment seemed to stand alone.

As tragic as this incident is, I have to say that it was nice to hear about a fight that didn't involve weapons.
 

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You're right Pete, I did qualify my statements (at least I tried to). Again, I don't want to see the puncher go to jail for the rest of his life (perhaps not at all, now), but some sort of intervention is in order. What that is exactly, I'm not sure. Counseling? Classes? Probation? Community service? Dunno for sure.

I agree, it's refreshing in a way to hear about two kids fighting but not cutting each other up or shooting it out with guns.

Edit: Do we risk engaging in situational ethics by telling our kids it's okay to settle differences via fistfights (violence) but that it's wrong to bring guns to school and maime/kill our enemies as happened in Littleton, CO (violence)?

:idunno:

I think the Right Answer is . . . we should teach our kids that violence at any level should be avoided.

My .02 worth only.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Chain said:
You're right Pete, I did qualify my statements (at least I tried to). Again, I don't want to see the puncher go to jail for the rest of his life (perhaps not at all, now), but some sort of intervention is in order. What that is exactly, I'm not sure. Counseling? Classes? Probation? Community service? Dunno for sure.

I agree, it's refreshing in a way to hear about two kids fighting but not cutting each other up or shooting it out with guns.
:thumb:
 

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Pete said:
I have always taught my son not to start a fight, but to never shy away from defending himself or a friend if need be, which is why I took such an interest in this incident.
QUOTE]

I think todays kids' are for the most part too much of pu$$ies to really fight - and that is why they are so quick to pick up a gun when they encounter a confrontation.

As long as they don't become bullies, a little scrapping builds character.
 
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