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Non starter,(demented)

334 Views 9 Replies 2 Participants Last post by  colonso
After the rectifier decided to stop putting out a descent charging current it got replaced with one that did.
Testing the new rectifier it was putting out 14 volts which was fine, I'd left the tilt sensor laying down after I removed the two bolts that hold it onto the frame, my partner was holding the petrol tank from the back allowing me to trial and error the install of the rectifier,everything going fine and bolted back together, bike is ticking over nicely then after 5 minutes starts running rough then cuts and dies,tried starting but nothing.

Ignition on
Fuel pump priming
Lots of fuel pressure at fpr as I removed the hose from the fpr to the tank and placing my finger over the fpr and cranked it over and I got soaked in fuel,I couldn't hold my finger there there was that much pressure,
Took out a spark plug,connected to the coil and earthed against the engine, no spark.
Read lots in the past few days and suspect the diode for the hiss, lots of people are saying if it goes bad it sends 12volts instead of 9.
I've tested mine and I'm getting 0.01 volt in run position and 0.03 when it's not in run,I was expecting 12 volts when I tested it, does this indicate a fault elsewhere as I'm trying to find info for a test result reading 0.01 and struggling to do so.
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Just found out when I leave my test wires on the diode,pink wire and Toggle between run on and off, when it goes to on and primes I'm getting 1.25 volts and pressing the starter switch to start it I'm getting 0.36 volts
are you measuring pink wire to ground? Should be 9v if you are. You could try a 9v battery, connect + to the pink wire, and - to the chasis or battery -
this will ensure there is 9v going to the ecu
Hi, im measuring pink wire to ground and getting nothing, if I keep my test wires connected and Toggle the on-off switch I'll get up to 1.5 volts, the reading differs everytime you put the switch on and off, I've connected a 9 volt battery,during the test it stopped the fuel pump from priming, if I separate the multiplug from the loom and remove the hiss from the top of the ignition barrel I get 5 volts at the pink wire which is part of the loom side then reconnect the hiss then I'm back to 00.1 with the kill switch in run position and 0.03 when it's not in run position.
There is no zener diode in the back of the ignition switch either there never has been by the look of things, can't see a voltage step down in the loom,12v-9v adapter, it would be fairly easy to notice something that size, I've used this bike now for the past few years and the other day had to push start it at the petrol station as the battery went dead, rectifier issue. Got home on 12.2 volts for 40 miles, it started another six times afterwards as I was swapping out rectifiers, got one that was putting 14.4 back into the battery then it started idling a bit erratically, did that for a couple of minutes then cut out, pump primes, loads of fuel pressure, just no spark getting to the spark plugs,strangely enough I found myself tapping the back of the hiss module in hatred of it and noticed the volts jump up and down within the 1 volt range but when I finally ran out of amusement I stopped hitting it and it did its usual 0 - 0.01.... to add insult to injury I've got it up for sale this week before all this happened,fs...
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The RR failing can take out the stator. The RR failing can also fry the ECU as they sometime fail to shunt power until the voltage has got too high, but lets hope not.

I assume all fuses, relays, and battery are all good?

Is there 12v at the injectors and coils (black wire with white strip? also check cam sensor wires for cuts/breaks. It will prime and crank in both cases but will not start (although the cam sensor should though a code in the ecu and make the MIL light flash the error code).

with all the ignition bits in place, inc HISS and pink wire, is the Engine Stop Relay ('ESR') clicking in? If so thats a good sign and means the pink and HISS are ok and the ECU is powering on the circuits. If the ESR is clicking-in then there should be 12v on the coils and injectors on the black wire with white trace.

There is the 'evil connector of corrosion' in the loom - this effects both ground and 12v feeds to lots of circuits. its inside the loom. if the ESR is ok but you do not have 12v at the coils/injectors then this might be the issue. if you have volts on the injectors and not the coils then this is very likely to be the issue - see pictures below.

lastly if the ESR is not clicking in then perhaps the zennor diode is goosed? You could take the pink wire out the connector (or cut it but for a test I'd try and remove the pin out of the connector with a small jewellers screwdriver or similar) and try the 9v battery trick to be sure, it not a good idea to have it connected to the switch and 9v battery at the same time. The pink 9v thing is for USA as they didn't get HISS originally so its the only line of anti-theft they got, and the two things are separate (the US ECU is different internally as there is not HISS circuits, not wires for the HISS pickup round the ignition switch). Removing HISS wont fix anything and the bike definitely wont start without it.
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Thank you for getting back in touch.😀😀

All fuses are in working order, battery is never off the trickle charger just now, but got a new battery today just to rule that out.

9pin mutliplug going to coils is getting battery voltage at black wire - white stripe and also blue and black wire next to it.

8 pin multiplug going to the Injectors is getting battery voltage at black wire - white stripe and also getting 5.2 volts at yellow wire - red stripe.

Esr activates fuel pump relay as it should then deactivates after its did its priming thing, fuel pump is activated for the duration of time you keep your finger on the starter button, also swapped the relays over for fuel pump and fuel cut off ( next to bas ).. same result as I've just explained.

I uncovered the orange block of doom and spray cleaner in there and reconnected, it made no difference although I'm going to remove it again and use sand paper, clean the spades a bit better,( worth a try ).

Also got continuity from the pink wire from ecu to multiplug at hiss connector.

Looking through other posts there was a situation where another member was saying he got 0.4 volts on the pink wire and 3.5 when cranking which was normal and that eu bikes didn't have the zener diode and he put it down to a tooth missing on the cam as it was placed one tooth out in the rebuild and if its not correctly lined up there is a security measure to stop it from sparking,sadly he hasn't updated the post in the past four years to find out and report his findings.

Is it probable that my bike has a cam timing issue.
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cam chain/timing - only way that could change is if its been apart to do valve clearances and only then if they needed adjusting. Its not going to have changed otherwise. Trust me I just did the valves on my 929 and there is no where near enough slack to enable it to jump a tooth. You said there is no spark so I'd still be looking electrical, if not the 12v supply then perhaps the various earth/ground connections.
Is it possible during push starting it, or thinks its been stolen and the immobiliser needs reset, or it hasn't done it itself, yesterday I tried different stators and rectifiers,yip I agree its defo electrical, thank you for the confirmation on the cam timing.

Everything is getting volts up to it, it's after the starter is engaged the electrical system isn't passing it on. Hence my immobiliser theory or ecu....

Thank you for your input.
the HISS immobiliser either works or not - there is no reset nor does it remember anything, it checks the key for the ship each and every time; if the chip matches the stored value in teh ECU it puts out the HISS light on teh dash and allows the bike to start. if there is any aftermarket alarm/immobiliser I'd remove it just in case. everything sounds like its working ok, like the pump running when you crank it (this is triggered off the crank position sensor). It might still be worth checking the cam position sensor (front left of engine in to the head, two wires - I have one that was partially worn through but could not see why or that it was rubbing on anything but enough to stop the bike starting)
I've had an auto electrician out who has had various flashing diodes over all points of the multi plugs on the harness and everything checks out fine apart from a very dim light when connected to the multiplug on the coil as you turn it over which indicates a very weak amount of current getting through but not enough to generate a spark at the plugs. I've been advised the drivers in the ecu are not working and a new ecu will solve the issue, also I'll need a new stator.
Thank you for all your input and advice and I'll update on here when I get a new ecu or considering selling it for spares or repair.
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