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I'm listening to the tv in the backgrouond. I had no idea this Occupy is gaining so much traction. It's global. I just heard about a demonstration of over 100,000. In France? Police beating people back and launching tear gas. And huge demonstrations in a bunch of other countries too.
Here in Sacramento, there's been demonstrators at the capital building for over a week now. Occupy Sacramento. 60 arrests so far.

Wierd :idunno:
 

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Finally gaining some traction and the politicians are starting to feel like they may have to comment on it. God forbid they have an opinion on the concerns of everyday people.

Like instead of pumping 1.3 billion of my tax dollars into the oil sands perhaps they should think about giving safe drinking water to the community just up the highway from me? :rant:

Has the Arab Spring has finally gotten us "rich lazy" people to stand up for those injustices?
 

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Wooo its such a shame that people that will never be billionaires should go out and complain that their lifes are being ruined by a tiny % of peeps that will never starve, lose their houses, marriages will break up, lose their cars, lose their jobs, freeze without heating ah feck it enough said
 

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Wooo its such a shame that people that will never be billionaires should go out and complain that their lifes are being ruined by a tiny % of peeps that will never starve, lose their houses, marriages will break up, lose their cars, lose their jobs, freeze without heating ah feck it enough said
:plus1:

People are phoning nearby food shops to donate money to feed the protesters. Cool.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have to start paying more attention, but here in Sacramento, Occupy Sacramento, is protesting about the total mis-management of our hard earned tax revenues being blown out the butt of some greazy politicians and lobbyists. I'll have to do some more research to confirm that.
I just thought it was interesting how it was catching on globaly. Like Flash Mobs.
 

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Finally gaining some traction and the politicians are starting to feel like they may have to comment on it. God forbid they have an opinion on the concerns of everyday people.

Like instead of pumping 1.3 billion of my tax dollars into the oil sands perhaps they should think about giving safe drinking water to the community just up the highway from me? :rant:

Has the Arab Spring has finally gotten us "rich lazy" people to stand up for those injustices?
Around here, the media is treating it just like the Tea Party. Just a bunch of kooks out there getting arrested. I'm for it. So far, they want to keep it peaceful.
I suppose the politicians and conservitive talk-show hosts will just dismiss them as radicals.
Then I'm a radical. Cause I hate all the bulls**t tax code the politicians have written into law over the last 50 years. It's out of control. Completely. As a 22 year self-employed guy, I see the bias and favortisim that has completely destroyed any semblance of fairness.
 

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I can see that I'm staying all the way away from this one.. I'm all about working hard, paying the taxes you owe (a standard percentage would be fine with me), capitalism, etc.. But I'm not a tea Partyer, even though it offends me when someone calls them "Tea Baggers". It offends me when someone calls me a "Biker" also. I'm on the conservative side of Centrist. I vote for the person that I think with best represent me and my belief, but I wouldn't take their job for any money. I think Nancy Pelosi is not only crazy, but she looks like the crypt keeper. I think that term limits are one of the major needs for this country. Very specific term limits on not just elected terms, but terms in Positions of authority, i.e. Speaker, whip etc.. I think that Politicians need to be people who give a crap about the country and it survival not leveraging their position to inflate their bank accounts. I think Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. I believe Citizens should be held accountable for their actions. I believe the constitution is fine the way it was written by our fore fathers. I believe foreign Policy needs to take second place to homeland policy, and should start here at home. I believe in immigration, as long as it's done legally. My ancestors did it legally, and were forced to change their name. How bad do the immigrants want it, Mine apparently wanted it bad enough to take what they were given and make something of it. I believe in term limits for welfare, unemployment, and all other Government subsidies. I got my first job at 9 years old, I've never taken Unemployment , or welfare. My Dad had 8 kids, and made $300 a month. I've worked myself into Just at 6digits, by hard work, blood sweat and tears. Well, not tears so much, but hard work, blood and sweat. I have goals and I work towards them, without stepping on others on the way up. I've seen to many people get kicked on the way down. I'm happy with my life because I've worked for it and God has rewarded me with everything I need. That's how it should be.
Wow, that whole staying away from this didn't work out for me did it? Well, I said it and if I stepped on anyone's toes then I apologizeand recommend you get steelI will listen and consider your opinion if you present it in a respectful manner, but I will not argue with you. It leads to nothing, and progress is one of my goals.
Sorry for the rant, but those hippies are messing up private property in the name of protest. We used to call that Vandalism when I was a their age, and it was against the law. I need to try sanka brand..
Peace.
 

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Not sure I understand what this is all about..

What's wrong with working had and making more than others? Maybe these rich folks were smarter or had bigger balls or better ideas. Why do they have to share with others? Does this whole demonstration try to achieve global communism? Sounds like a bunch of nutters who have time for maybe working another job.
 

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Not sure I understand what this is all about..

What's wrong with working had and making more than others? Maybe these rich folks were smarter or had bigger balls or better ideas. Why do they have to share with others? Does this whole demonstration try to achieve global communism? Sounds like a bunch of nutters who have time for maybe working another job.
These rich folks exploit loopholes and screw people for their personal gain. Did you know CEOs of large corporations can sell the pensions of their employees to fund their insane severance packages? I have no problem with people making big money for doing big things. But I do have a problem with people doing it at the direct expense of their employees and of the share-holders that they are supposed to work for



As for the movement itself, its great to see people get organized and stand up for what they believe in. But I think its just a matter of time before its perverted and absorbed by a political party just like the tea party. But if they make their voices heard and it makes an impact on Capitol Hill, then good for them
 

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As for the movement itself, its great to see people get organized and stand up for what they believe in. But I think its just a matter of time before its perverted and absorbed by a political party just like the tea party. But if they make their voices heard and it makes an impact on Capitol Hill, then good for them
IT's already started..
 

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Around here, the media is treating it just like the Tea Party. Just a bunch of kooks out there getting arrested. I'm for it. So far, they want to keep it peaceful.
I suppose the politicians and conservitive talk-show hosts will just dismiss them as radicals.
Then I'm a radical. Cause I hate all the bulls**t tax code the politicians have written into law over the last 50 years. It's out of control. Completely. As a 22 year self-employed guy, I see the bias and favortisim that has completely destroyed any semblance of fairness.
It looks to me like it's all kind of folks not hippies only but older people that have worked all their life and paid their dues, young professionals that did all the 'right' things but are still getting srcewed and yeah, several hippies too. The cameras will focus on the violent or the weirdos, some hardworking middle class guy with a family is not a news story. It looks like they're asking for a fair shake.

Remember the multi billionaire's housekeeper pays more taxes than he does? Both work hard for their money but the system is skewed in favour of those who can afford to exploit the loopholes. They're just asking for the playing field to be more level. Kinda cool to see old pensioners and punks all side by side like that.

I keep mentionng water because it personal for me. We built a fake lake for the G20 yet no everyone here has water that's safe to drink - the water in the fake lake was purified. Just asking for a wee bit of common sense and fairness.

How bad do the immigrants want it, Mine apparently wanted it bad enough to take what they were given and make something of it.
Don't think this is about immigrants but more about fairness. Many refugees escape to your country because they don't have the choice our ancestors did. Many are just crooks, yep. We have to keep the separated into individual people, not throw them into categories.
What does your Statue of Liberty say?
""Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Both of our countries seem to only want the rich and well educated yet they were both built by regular folk fleeing their homeland situation.

I've worked myself into Just at 6digits, by hard work, blood sweat and tears. Well, not tears so much, but hard work, blood and sweat. I have goals and I work towards them, without stepping on others on the way up. I've seen to many people get kicked on the way down. I'm happy with my life because I've worked for it and God has rewarded me with everything I need. That's how it should be.
At those protests, you're seeing some of those people that worked like you and have been kicked on the way down as you put it.

All the credit in the world to you for your hard work, let's hope the pension/job/housing situation doesn't happen to you like it has to many good people. They are just like you.
Sorry for the rant, but those hippies are messing up private property in the name of protest. We used to call that Vandalism when I was a their age, and it was against the law. I need to try sanka brand..
Peace.
Unfortunately many of those people have brought their issues to all the right places but no one will listen/can do anything about it/are willing to stand up and call for change and fairness etc, I think this is the result of having no other way to get their voices heard.

In the "old days" many of our ancestors had rally's and marches, this is not new but now it's happening in our generation. Ignore the news, go visit the protests and read the signs, ask the people there what the problem is.

Not sure I understand what this is all about..

What's wrong with working had and making more than others? Maybe these rich folks were smarter or had bigger balls or better ideas. Why do they have to share with others? Does this whole demonstration try to achieve global communism? Sounds like a bunch of nutters who have time for maybe working another job.
:rotfl::rotfl:
That's not what this is about but the right wing nutters may try to slant it like that. No one I know has ever mentioned people resenting those who work hard for good money.

Our past Prime Minister - the one who fixed the banking so we had no bail-out was/is really rich. He owned one of the largest shipping companies in the world. He's an awesome guy -trying to help get children in the north into schools etc. We need people like that. But look at the above example with Mr.Buffet (billionaire extraorinaire), his housekeeper has to pay more taxes than he does because of the way the system is set up. No one is asking to take away his money and give it out to a bunch of bums.:rotfl::rotfl:
Just a little bit of fairness in the system.
Did you know that companies can take out a life insurance policy on you to pay for anything that needs paying out should you kick the bucket while under their dime? Creepy eh? But all that money costs them nothing (write-off) and helps keep the pension/benefit money in the investment loop.

What was wrong with the way our forfathers ran their companies? The bosses made more than the workers and each paid their fair share of taxes that helped the community as a whole. Do you think that's what is hapening now?

As Bill Gates once said how much is enough?

Just a little bit of common sense and humanity. If my great grandfather had his house burn down, the villiage helped rebuild it and he would do the same for his neighbour - THOSE DAYS ARE GONE!
They were all for helping someone less fortunate now we call them bums and damn them to hell for being who they are. Unemployed? Oh well, blame it on god or you're lazy or you must somehow deserve it. It's pathetic. I'm ashamed that my generation sometimes sees it this way.

Educate yourselves about what they are doing and remember that the newscasters won't show someone like us.

Ah, yes, Rendell, a good rant is good for the soul!
 

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:rotfl::rotfl:
That's not what this is about but the right wing nutters may try to slant it like that. No one I know has ever mentioned people resenting those who work hard for good money.

Our past Prime Minister - the one who fixed the banking so we had no bail-out was/is really rich. He owned one of the largest shipping companies in the world. He's an awesome guy -trying to help get children in the north into schools etc. We need people like that. But look at the above example with Mr.Buffet (billionaire extraorinaire), his housekeeper has to pay more taxes than he does because of the way the system is set up. No one is asking to take away his money and give it out to a bunch of bums.:rotfl::rotfl:
Just a little bit of fairness in the system.
Did you know that companies can take out a life insurance policy on you to pay for anything that needs paying out should you kick the bucket while under their dime? Creepy eh? But all that money costs them nothing (write-off) and helps keep the pension/benefit money in the investment loop.

What was wrong with the way our forfathers ran their companies? The bosses made more than the workers and each paid their fair share of taxes that helped the community as a whole. Do you think that's what is hapening now?

As Bill Gates once said how much is enough?

Just a little bit of common sense and humanity. If my great grandfather had his house burn down, the villiage helped rebuild it and he would do the same for his neighbour - THOSE DAYS ARE GONE!
They were all for helping someone less fortunate now we call them bums and damn them to hell for being who they are. Unemployed? Oh well, blame it on god or you're lazy or you must somehow deserve it. It's pathetic. I'm ashamed that my generation sometimes sees it this way.

Educate yourselves about what they are doing and remember that the newscasters won't show someone like us.
Well I was really going to get tore into FBs statement but after reading your response I calmed down, well said and nicely put :thumb:

One thing though the little big of damage being done is nothing compared to the legalised destruction perpetrated by those in power

You wont see many MDs committing suicide by a broken window of one of their buildings
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you GS for the thesis! You did such a fine job getting this back on track. This isn't about class envy: the rich getting richer off the backs of the poor. That's what I saw this strarting to spiral into. I was just too tired last nite to comment.
So glad I didn't, you have completely stated my viewpoint on the spirit of the demonstrations.
Get rid of the million pages of tax-codes, start over with something much much simpler.
 

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Thank you GS for the thesis! You did such a fine job getting this back on track. This isn't about class envy: the rich getting richer off the backs of the poor. That's what I saw this strarting to spiral into. I was just too tired last nite to comment.
So glad I didn't, you have completely stated my viewpoint on the spirit of the demonstrations.
Get rid of the million pages of tax-codes, start over with something much much simpler.
Now there is something I can get behind. I think I stated that in my rant. And Again I apologize for ranting.
 

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GS, I see your point, and I now I kind of (not really but so I don't have to travel to talk to them) wish they were around here. The problem I have with it is that now there are crimes being committed in their camps, and that does not help when they are trying to make a point about fairness. There really is no way to police this, unless they police their own even if it is not their own. Let me, try this again; They are massing in small areas, this is fine with me as long as their encroachment does effect the people they are trying to effect, and does not effect those that are not the cause. For instance, one park they are encamped on is private property, of someone who worked hard to earn the money to buy the property then make it a public setting. The encampment is tearing up the grass, and going to cost that owner money to repair. Even if this owner is a big money guy that the protesters are trying to protest, it does not give them the right to damage that person's property. At that point it is vandalism and is no longer peaceful protest. I stated before, and have always stated on this forum, that I am open to discussion with those who want to discuss topics respectfully. As GS and most here normally always do. Once a protest is no longer peaceful, it becomes disrespectful in my opinion. I believe they have made their point and there are people who are now willing to listen. I believe they are camping in the wrong areas. I believe they are misguided in their direction. If the problem is taxes, why wallstreet? Why not the capital building where the land is public land owned by the taxpayers, and they make those decisions there? Then there are police who are supported by tax dollars having to not only watch over the area where the group is assembled, they are now having to spend time and money investigating the crimes that pop up when there is an assembly of this size and the criminals catch word of it.. This further puts a drain on the taxpayers, that the protest is saying the middle class is the majority of. So, the people the protest is trying to help are being burdened by the protest. It's a catch 22, but I believe that the protesters are responsible to provide some solution to the Catch and the issue that can be discussed, and they should be open to discussion and suggestion.I'm not saying that The Occupiers are not open, just making a statement of opinion. This is how things start to move forward, and the time for discussion is now. Here's the rub, the political parties have become so polarized at this point that they are not willing to listen and discuss the issues at hand. They have shutdown from that, they have shifted to "if I'm going to have to fight and maybe give up something, I better get something out of it personally." There are several ways to fix this, and the time has come for true bipartisanship. If there was ever the right time for a third political party it is now.
Please do not take any of this wrong. I appreciate the dialog and hope mine is taken as respectful. I know sometimes text is poor medium for discussion.
 

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GS, I see your point, and I now I kind of (not really but so I don't have to travel to talk to them) wish they were around here. The problem I have with it is that now there are crimes being committed in their camps, and that does not help when they are trying to make a point about fairness. There really is no way to police this, unless they police their own even if it is not their own. Let me, try this again; They are massing in small areas, this is fine with me as long as their encroachment does effect the people they are trying to effect, and does not effect those that are not the cause. For instance, one park they are encamped on is private property, of someone who worked hard to earn the money to buy the property then make it a public setting. The encampment is tearing up the grass, and going to cost that owner money to repair. Even if this owner is a big money guy that the protesters are trying to protest, it does not give them the right to damage that person's property. At that point it is vandalism and is no longer peaceful protest. I stated before, and have always stated on this forum, that I am open to discussion with those who want to discuss topics respectfully. As GS and most here normally always do. Once a protest is no longer peaceful, it becomes disrespectful in my opinion. I believe they have made their point and there are people who are now willing to listen. I believe they are camping in the wrong areas. I believe they are misguided in their direction. If the problem is taxes, why wallstreet? Why not the capital building where the land is public land owned by the taxpayers, and they make those decisions there? Then there are police who are supported by tax dollars having to not only watch over the area where the group is assembled, they are now having to spend time and money investigating the crimes that pop up when there is an assembly of this size and the criminals catch word of it.. This further puts a drain on the taxpayers, that the protest is saying the middle class is the majority of. So, the people the protest is trying to help are being burdened by the protest. It's a catch 22, but I believe that the protesters are responsible to provide some solution to the Catch and the issue that can be discussed, and they should be open to discussion and suggestion.I'm not saying that The Occupiers are not open, just making a statement of opinion. This is how things start to move forward, and the time for discussion is now. Here's the rub, the political parties have become so polarized at this point that they are not willing to listen and discuss the issues at hand. They have shutdown from that, they have shifted to "if I'm going to have to fight and maybe give up something, I better get something out of it personally." There are several ways to fix this, and the time has come for true bipartisanship. If there was ever the right time for a third political party it is now.
Please do not take any of this wrong. I appreciate the dialog and hope mine is taken as respectful. I know sometimes text is poor medium for discussion.
I disagree. I don't think they've made their point and people will listen so they should just pack it up. People are starting to notice, they're not listening yet. Now is the time they really need to stick to their guns more than ever. They can make an impact, but they need to be reasonable at the same time. I've been reading that a lot of them are just out there demanding they be personally given free ****


Now, I'm not saying that the shitstorm we're in now is all Wall St. CEOs' faults. A lot of the blame falls on those of us dumb enough to buy a house that we know we can't afford. If you make $2K a month, you cannot afford a $1500 mortgage. Negative amortization loans are ridiculous, why would you buy a house and make payments to owe MORE at the end of your term. It's frustrating. Then you've got people like that octo-mom. Unemployed and lived with her parents when she decided bringing 8 kids into this world, to join the, I believe 4, she already had. Now she's on welfare. The system is broken in sooooooo many aspects.
 

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I disagree. I don't think they've made their point and people will listen so they should just pack it up. People are starting to notice, they're not listening yet. Now is the time they really need to stick to their guns more than ever. They can make an impact, but they need to be reasonable at the same time. I've been reading that a lot of them are just out there demanding they be personally given free ****


Now, I'm not saying that the shitstorm we're in now is all Wall St. CEOs' faults. A lot of the blame falls on those of us dumb enough to buy a house that we know we can't afford. If you make $2K a month, you cannot afford a $1500 mortgage. Negative amortization loans are ridiculous, why would you buy a house and make payments to owe MORE at the end of your term. It's frustrating. Then you've got people like that octo-mom. Unemployed and lived with her parents when she decided bringing 8 kids into this world, to join the, I believe 4, she already had. Now she's on welfare. The system is broken in sooooooo many aspects.
So, you agree with all, but they should pack it up? I don't remember saying they should pack it up, I said they should direct it at the folks that are causing the trouble and not the folks that they are currently vandalizing. Anyway, I think that you and I are on the same sheet, roughly, and that is a good thing. I also say that I believe that the tax laws are currently screwed. I have Ideas on the fix. Giving them free **** personally isn't the fix. I believe we are agreeing on that one..
 
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