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Discussion Starter #3
Yes I intially heard that as well. Then that story was disputed. Also the police comissioner said that regulations state that no officer is to fire into a vehicle unless there is gunfire coming from the vehicle.
 

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Yes I intially heard that as well. Then that story was disputed. Also the police comissioner said that regulations state that no officer is to fire into a vehicle unless there is gunfire coming from the vehicle.
So if you are a police officer in NYC and some :asshat: tries to run you over you cannot defend yourself :confused: Wow I hope they are REAL well paid. Of course IF the using the car as a weapon is fabricated then that changes things. Personally you could not pay me enough to be a cop there or LA as it seems the system is out to get them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Actually the officers in NY are very very underpaid...its also a bit insulting because the officers in Long Island which is on the border of NYC are among the top highest paid in the country. In NYC they start around $30k or so...and may average $40-$50 with OT. In Long Island the average pay is $100k. Also whether shooting into a car is considered defending oneself is debatable...that was one of the major points of discussion at the beginning of the incident. That discussion ended though with the commissioners statement.
 

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Actually the officers in NY are very very underpaid...its also a bit insulting because the officers in Long Island which is on the border of NYC are among the top highest paid in the country. In NYC they start around $30k or so...and may average $40-$50 with OT. In Long Island the average pay is $100k. Also whether shooting into a car is considered defending oneself is debatable...that was one of the major points of discussion at the beginning of the incident. That discussion ended though with the commissioners statement.
If I was trying to run you over in my car and you had a gun (pretend you are where the constitution is semi-honored) would you shoot at the car in an attempt to make me either divert or stop out of fear for your life?
 

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I think they shot because they are all racist. They just saw a black man and decided to empty a few magazines just because of skin color, no other factors whatsoever.
 

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that is what they are trying to turn it into. i get sick of the race card getting thrown in situations like this. like with the cramer insident, if it had been the other way it would have been fine.
 

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Regardless, 51 shots seems to me to be a bit excessive. I don't know what kind of guns they are equipped with, .45's or something of that variation (?), but I do know that there shouldn't be a reason to just haul ass and shoot that much...even if there was fire coming from the vehicle. That's alot of bullets that went into the car.
 

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50 shots.

Not really excessive when firing into a car.

The point of shooting is to stop the threat...if the car isn't stopping, you keep firing.

I think this is far too light on info to decide either way.
 

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Five officers, 50 shots. That's ten per. If they felt their life were in danger from what they claim they thought were four individuals in a car ramming them, it isn't really all that out of the realm of realistic.
The detective stated he heard one of them state he was going to go get a gun. He followed them to the car, announced he was police and then they rammed him.
They all had records and at least one was currently under investigation.
There is a lot more to the story than 50 shots fired at a car, and I feel fine just letting the situation unfold.
Seems to me the ones blowing it out of proportion are the ones with the most to gain.
 

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Five officers, 50 shots. That's ten per. If they felt their life were in danger from what they claim they thought were four individuals in a car ramming them, it isn't really all that out of the realm of realistic.
The detective stated he heard one of them state he was going to go get a gun. He followed them to the car, announced he was police and then they rammed him.
They all had records and at least one was currently under investigation.
There is a lot more to the story than 50 shots fired at a car, and I feel fine just letting the situation unfold.
Seems to me the ones blowing it out of proportion are the ones with the most to gain.
:plus1:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If I was trying to run you over in my car and you had a gun (pretend you are where the constitution is semi-honored) would you shoot at the car in an attempt to make me either divert or stop out of fear for your life?
Whether I would do it and whether it would be self defense are two different things. I dont know all the details...some say the officer jumped on top of the car...now I am not sure if that is true. Also the key here is whether the officer did identify himself. Some say he did others say he didnt. The victims are saying they saw a man with a gun pointed at them after they had gotten into an altercation inside the bar. If they thought it was someone attempting to harm them from the altercation...the question would be what would you do? Try to drive away or hope that they are officers?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
that is what they are trying to turn it into. i get sick of the race card getting thrown in situations like this. like with the cramer insident, if it had been the other way it would have been fine.
I dont think can successfully do that and I dont even see that view too much in this area. The club that they were at was frequented mostly by the same race of people and also the officers that did the shooting were Afro American and Hispanic (I think Hispanic).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Five officers, 50 shots. That's ten per. If they felt their life were in danger from what they claim they thought were four individuals in a car ramming them, it isn't really all that out of the realm of realistic.
The detective stated he heard one of them state he was going to go get a gun. He followed them to the car, announced he was police and then they rammed him.
They all had records and at least one was currently under investigation.
There is a lot more to the story than 50 shots fired at a car, and I feel fine just letting the situation unfold.
Seems to me the ones blowing it out of proportion are the ones with the most to gain.
Actually one officer fired 30 or 31 shots and the remaining officers the rest. He had to reload and shoot again. Also there is a debate as to whether the officer had identified himself. What does them having records have to do with anything...the officers didnt have access to that information when they were in the club. Thats hardly relevant. I dont enough info to come to a conclusion but if what the victims in the car were saying is true...is it really blown out of proportion? Assuming it is true. If it isnt true then for one officer to unload that many bullets seems excessive to me. At what point do you just move out of the way...keep in mind I am just imagining how it would play out in my head. I dont know the actual circumstances.
 

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If as reported he tried to ram the officer and then the van...it was a threat that needed to be stopped.

Why does the volume of fire matter? If it was justified to shoot to stop a threat, the cops should shoot until the threat is stopped.

But on a different note, have you ever shot a modern service pistol, say a Glock 17 in 9mm with standard capacity 17 rd mags? It takes no time at all to do a "mag dump". And it takes little time to change the mag.

Considering he's firing into a car, where handgun bullets don't penetrate well, and he needs to stop that car from moving...
 
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