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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I have an 02 954 with Two Bros slip on and K+N. Im thinking about getting the power commander but want to know what to expect. This bike is already pretty responsive. I wonder how it can be improved. I would appreciate any input on what to expect with this purchase, and how hard it is to configure with my bike once I get it.
thanks for any info.
 

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WhooHoo said:
Hey guys, I have an 02 954 with Two Bros slip on and K+N. Im thinking about getting the power commander but want to know what to expect. This bike is already pretty responsive. I wonder how it can be improved. I would appreciate any input on what to expect with this purchase, and how hard it is to configure with my bike once I get it.
thanks for any info.

No need to get one, but if you do and get a good map, you can expect a throttle that's not as jerky. you may pick up a very small amount of midrange power, but if you're chasing power put a clean original air filtrer back in and pick up the horsepower or 2 you have lost by using a K+N.

Plus you may actually be able to go faster cause your wallet will be lighter ;)
 

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I'de say they are definately worth it. Even for a stock bike they improve the throttle response and smooth out the jerkiness. You can pick em up cheap in the states so why not. When you go to sell the bike you can still sell the PCIII off. I wouldn't bother going to the expense of the PCIIIR, the PCIII is fine for your purposes. Put on one of the maps from the PC site, and then get it professionally mapped using the Tuning Link software etc at a later date if you want to step up a bit. It doesn't always improve power greatly (probably only a few hp) but will definately smooth out the power curve and should improve your fuel economy a decent amount.
 

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Yup- what he said. Even with a stock bike, a PCIII will smooth the power out and make it a little easier to get to the ground. Don't bother with a PCIIIR version unless you plan on getting some serious mods, or plan on using race fuel (for the track)

Z..
 

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FuTAnT said:
I'de say they are definately worth it. Even for a stock bike they improve the throttle response and smooth out the jerkiness. You can pick em up cheap in the states so why not. When you go to sell the bike you can still sell the PCIII off. I wouldn't bother going to the expense of the PCIIIR, the PCIII is fine for your purposes. Put on one of the maps from the PC site, and then get it professionally mapped using the Tuning Link software etc at a later date if you want to step up a bit. It doesn't always improve power greatly (probably only a few hp) but will definately smooth out the power curve and should improve your fuel economy a decent amount.
Is there general agreement that a PCIII will improve fuel economy? I'm currently running only a Jardine can...
 

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WhooHoo and RedCliff,
If interested, I have a PC3 available for a descent price- $175.00 including shipping. It was bought this last May. Good condition. Comes with cable as well as software. I just recently bought a PC3r for my 929 because of the mods (boring, cams). My understanding is that the 929 and 954 PC's are compatable. You just have to cut and paste the maps. Let me know if you're interested. [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the input. I probably don't need one from what I read. However, need and desire are far from the same. Anybody know about simple tweeking or mods I could do to increase horsepower? (besides head work and porting)
 

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WhooHoo said:
Thanks for the input. I probably don't need one from what I read. However, need and desire are far from the same. Anybody know about simple tweeking or mods I could do to increase horsepower? (besides head work and porting)

Hindle :eyebrows:
 

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WhooHoo said:
Thanks for the input. I probably don't need one from what I read. However, need and desire are far from the same. Anybody know about simple tweeking or mods I could do to increase horsepower? (besides head work and porting)
Yup, like someone above said, get rid of the K&N and stick the OEM back in, you'll gain 1-2 HP.
 

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redcliffs said:
Is there general agreement that a PCIII will improve fuel economy? I'm currently running only a Jardine can...
There's no 'guarantee' but from most reports it definately improves fuel economy. The stock bikes (blades especially) tend to run a bit rich. Interesting to note, while flicking through Superbike mag the other day they were talking about mods etc etc that everyone does and said the Blade benefitted best from the PC installation, basically meaning that the stock map is far from great.
 

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FuTAnT said:
There's no 'guarantee' but from most reports it definately improves fuel economy. The stock bikes (blades especially) tend to run a bit rich. Interesting to note, while flicking through Superbike mag the other day they were talking about mods etc etc that everyone does and said the Blade benefitted best from the PC installation, basically meaning that the stock map is far from great.
Ahem, not to jump in or anything ( :) ), but these bikes tend to run quite lean stock--at least U.S. (and especially California versions) do. BUt I get the point about a PC--I know I need one...
 

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Yes, the stock map is quite lean, especially around 5000 rpm for emissions.

Here's my experience:

I had a PCII on my VFR before I got the 954 and liked what it did, so as soon as I got the 954 I ordered my PCIII. I had an Erion aluminum slip-on and stock filter when I installed the PCIII. I used the #1 map as it was closest to my setup, and found it smoothed throttle response and got rid of the flat spot around 5k rpm.

Last season, I put the stock can back on because I was attracting too much attention from the local LEOs with the sound. I was amazed that the response was much smoother, and the SOTP dyno told me I increased the ponies by a little with the same map. :idunno: Whatever, I liked it.

I averaged 40 mpg each tank. About 37 mpg when I got feisty, but I don't know at the track, since I forgot to set the tripmeter when I went. (I only got to do one day last season.)

As I understand, the PCIIIr allows ignition timing changes. Unless you are modding your engine with a different cam, or changing compression ratios, it probably is not worth the extra dosh.

Two different bikes, two different PCs, owner satisfied both times. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
 

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I'd get one no matter what mods you're planning. It greatly helped my 929. As others have said, I'd nix the K&N. For the fuel economy, mine was worse. It was mapped more for power vs. economy. Pre-map: about 125-130 miles/tank. After: about 90-100 miles/tank.

:idunno:
 

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Erwin8r said:
Ahem, not to jump in or anything ( :) ), but these bikes tend to run quite lean stock--at least U.S. (and especially California versions) do. BUt I get the point about a PC--I know I need one...
My Cali '02 does not run lean. I just picked up a PCIII from Dan Kyle today. Stopped by his shop and got to talk to him about it. He even downloaded one of his custom maps onto the unit (a USB Commander). Very cool. I am keeping my stock exhaust setup because I want to do track days at Laguna Seca, and they are very strict about noise limits. I will probably get a Micron or Akrapovic end can and switch it back to stock for Seca. Anyway, DK said most of the Cali bikes he'd worked on tended to run rich. And that the Cali versions consistently produced slightly higher dyno results than the 49 State bikes did after pipe and commander conversion. Didn't get into specifics, certainly wasn't going to argue with him. 'Specially as he took time to explain some of the drama involved in installing the PC. I'll install it this weekend. :cool:
 

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zenblader said:
My Cali '02 does not run lean. I just picked up a PCIII from Dan Kyle today. Stopped by his shop and got to talk to him about it. He even downloaded one of his custom maps onto the unit (a USB Commander). Very cool. I am keeping my stock exhaust setup because I want to do track days at Laguna Seca, and they are very strict about noise limits. I will probably get a Micron or Akrapovic end can and switch it back to stock for Seca. Anyway, DK said most of the Cali bikes he'd worked on tended to run rich. And that the Cali versions consistently produced slightly higher dyno results than the 49 State bikes did after pipe and commander conversion. Didn't get into specifics, certainly wasn't going to argue with him. 'Specially as he took time to explain some of the drama involved in installing the PC. I'll install it this weekend. :cool:
I won't ever pretend to know more than Dan Kyle, but if you stick an 02 sensor in the pipe of one of these things, you'll see just how lean CARB and the EPA requires our bikes to be. As a matter of fact, the catalytic converter has a very strict fuel/air ratio requirment (read: lean) in order to operate in its optimum range. Maybe things have radically changed, but that's been my experience with all of my CA-spec bikes...
 

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I echo Erwin8r, I am no Dan Kyle. However, a rich mixture is gonna put more unburned hydrocarbons in the atmosphere than a lean mixture would. Many automotive systems add air (PAIR ring a bell?) to aid combustion of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust. Honda has met emissions standards to what, 2008? Do you really believe they did that with a rich air/fuel ratio?
 

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Zen,

I just reread your post and may have an answer.

Many Cali bikers disable emissions equipment in order to change it more toward the 49 state equivalent. At least, that is my understanding. If a lot of those bikes make up a majority of bikes DK works on, of course, they would run rich compared to Cali standards.

Is this what he meant?
 

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maxib said:
Zen,

I just reread your post and may have an answer.

Many Cali bikers disable emissions equipment in order to change it more toward the 49 state equivalent. At least, that is my understanding. If a lot of those bikes make up a majority of bikes DK works on, of course, they would run rich compared to Cali standards.

Is this what he meant?
:idunno: He may have meant that, but his comment was in response to what I said regarding how lean these bikes run, yet the deposits at the opening of the tailpipe on my bike are pretty black. He responded by saying that the perception is that they run lean, but they really don't. He was busy downloading a custom map onto my new PC so he may have been distracted. Like a good boy I said "Gosh, really?" He nodded.
IMO (using my incredibly limited intellect) I don't see how a bike as light as the 954, in such a high state of tune, can run lean while still only delivering 30-35 mpg. I could pretty well thrash my Sprint ST on a spirited run and still get 45-48 mpg. :confused:
 
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