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Discussion Starter #1
I USE POWER SHIFTING AND SPEED SHIFTING ON MY OPEL OPC ON THE TRACK AND IT'S AWESOME. RECENTLY TRIED IT ON MY BIKE, EVEN BETTER TO THE POINT OF ALMOST BLISSFUL COMPARED TO NORMAL SHIFTING. CHANGING IS INSTANTANEOUS WITH IMMEDIATE AND SMOOTH POWER TRANSMISSION FROM CHAIN TO WHEEL. POWER SHIFTING IS THE CHANGING OF GEARS WHILE HOLDING THE THROTTLE AT HIGH REVS,SAY 8 TO 9000RPM'S. SPEED SHIFTING IS THE UPSHIFTING OR DOWNSHIFTING AT LOWER RPM'S SAY 4-5000. TAKES SOME PRACTICE THOUGH. MY QUARTER MILE IMPROVED FROM 11.9 SECS TO 10.5 SECS. AMAZING. TRY IT.:thumb:
 

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I used to do this on my Yamaha. Right away it started kicking out of second gear. I tore the transmission apart and the edges of the gears were rounded. I replaced the shift forks and continued clutchless shifting. With in a couple of months the same thing happened. I figured I failed to assemble the transmission correctly. So I took it to a shop. The owner explained to me that by not using the clutch there is still a little pressure on the gears and over a period of time it rounds the edge of the gears until it gets to were under pressure the worn gears would kick out. I didn't know what to think of this because I used to always clutchless shift in dump trucks and never had a problem. But twice I actually saw my gears and they were visibly damaged. So I quit and never had a problem since. It might have also just been that Yamaha too because I had that thing apart as much as I rode it. Sold it and got my Honda. Maybe if I had a track bike I would try it again but as for my street bike I couldn't make myself speed shift it. I know there are some serious motorcycle mechanics on this forum that know a lot more about this than I do and now I am curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
good point. thanks for that tip. now you've scared me a bit. makes perfect sense though. the last hing i would want to do on this forum is get people to break their bikes. would be very interesting to hear the opinions of some tech guys. holla if you out there!!!:thumb:

"we born into this world with nothing and when we die we leave with nothing. we own our bikes, they don't own us"
 

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It all depends on how good you are at it. If you are coordinated, blipping the throttle/upshifting in my opinion won't do any noticeable harm to the dogs on your gears. I've been working on bikes lil over 20 years more as a hobby than anything else, and I've done a ton of transmissions. I've also been dragracing since 96 using an airshifter which is same principle (unloading the tranny while shifting). As for that Yamaha...up until just a few years ago, they shifted bout as smooth as an old KZ.
Just a sidenote...if your tranny ever does start popping out of a gear (usually 2nd), instead of buying 2 new gears, send both shafts out and have the dogs backcut. I had the tranny in my RR done by R&D transmissions back in 02. I just split the cases couple of weeks ago to put 997 kit in and the dogs still look brand new.
 

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There are alot of people that say it WILL damage your dogs, so in the end, it's your bike and your call. If you do, be sure and NOT put pressure on the lever while you're getting ready to shift or it will damage your forks/drum.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
you seem to know what you talking about since you drag race. can you describe in simple terms how to safely powershift or speedshift with minimal damage so as to improve lap times and so on. will be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance. ;)

p.s. i haer that normal shifting on bikesputs a lot of strain on the chain and sprockets due to the baulking in terms of power transfer that takes place whenever gears are changed.

'we own our bikes, they don't own us".
 

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ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.
thanks, man. you just saved me a costly lesson. won't argue with you. respect. ;)

"we are what we think"
 

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thanks, man. you just saved me a costly lesson. won't argue with you. respect. ;)

"we are what we think"

here to help.

I guess I can mention something about downshifts that a lot of us know but doesn't hurt to reiterate. blip the throttle when you pull the clutch in so you match the revs to where they will be once in the next lower gear. this applies to any vehicle really.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well, atleast I got that right. been doing that for some time. good technique especially for those poor guys without a slipper clutch like me. thanks again.
 

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To do "powershifting" correctly....throttle is wide open, foot is NOT touching shift lever, at the same time blip throttle and shift gear. You will know if you have the technique right when it slips into next gear smoothly and easily. Also, make sure you use a firm stroke with your foot so dogs are fully engaged. If you have your foot riding on the lever ("preloading") you are putting pressure on the drum which in turn is putting pressure on the fork. The fork will be slightly riding on the gear which will eventually wear the "foot" of the fork out and that will cause trouble down the road. The thickness of the fork determines how well the dogs engage. Does that make sense? I'm horrible at explaining but could show you how it works in no time.
As for blipping the throttle when downshifting with clutch...Best advice you can take. Like previously mentioned, it matches rpm's of main and counter shafts. Downshifting goes from "clunking" to "nice and smooth".
 

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what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.
:plus1: :thumb:
As for Downshifts, all you need is a quick flick of the clutch. (no need to bring it all the way in) make sure you blip the throttle up to match the rpms otherwise you will skid the rear. This is something you can practice from 2nd to first in a parking lot. Do it only going straight.
I learned this technique from WERA racer, author Lee Parks in his book "Total Control" - High Performance Street Techniques
 

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Discussion Starter #14
all excellent points. i take your word on that, 900racer, I mean not too many of us can claim to have split as many trannies as you. so well done and i am sure that's gonna help a lot of guys out there. flicking the clutch is also something that I do often enough, so that's also a great waywingedor to describe this method. :plus1:
 

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ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch. And as Wingordor stated, no need to pull the clutch all the way in, just far enough to engage it.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.
:plus1: Couldn't have said it better myself. On the track, I routinely do clutchless upshifts as described above. I always use the clutch to downshift, blipping the throttle to match revs to make it smooth.
 

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:plus1: :thumb:
As for Downshifts, all you need is a quick flick of the clutch. (no need to bring it all the way in) make sure you blip the throttle up to match the rpms otherwise you will skid the rear. This is something you can practice from 2nd to first in a parking lot. Do it only going straight.
I learned this technique from WERA racer, author Lee Parks in his book "Total Control" - High Performance Street Techniques
And nowteach this technique in Total Control ARC Level 2
 

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p.s. i haer that normal shifting on bikesputs a lot of strain on the chain and sprockets due to the baulking in terms of power transfer that takes place whenever gears are changed.

You can alleviate this problem by not pulling in the clutch all the way (which you dont have to do anyway) You basically pull in enough to allow it to disengange, shift gears and quickly -yet smoothly- release the clutch.

Basically the opposite of what how others described their downshifting.

A good way to know if your shifts are smooth (w/ or w/o clutch) is by having a passenger on the back. If you can still ride/shift semi-aggressively without clanking helmets, you just might be doing it right:thumb:

-jh
Proud supporter of no extra paint or scuff marks from other helmets
 

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To do "powershifting" correctly....throttle is wide open, foot is NOT touching shift lever, at the same time blip throttle and shift gear. You will know if you have the technique right when it slips into next gear smoothly and easily. Also, make sure you use a firm stroke with your foot so dogs are fully engaged. If you have your foot riding on the lever ("preloading") you are putting pressure on the drum which in turn is putting pressure on the fork. The fork will be slightly riding on the gear which will eventually wear the "foot" of the fork out and that will cause trouble down the road. The thickness of the fork determines how well the dogs engage. Does that make sense? I'm horrible at explaining but could show you how it works in no time.
As for blipping the throttle when downshifting with clutch...Best advice you can take. Like previously mentioned, it matches rpm's of main and counter shafts. Downshifting goes from "clunking" to "nice and smooth".

um thats impossible. if you're WOT you can't blip it, the throttle doesn't turn past wide open.

power shifting you HAVE to use the clutch because you need to cut power from the engine to the tranny for the bike to shift. doing that on a bike is dangerous. if you hold it wide open and pull the clutch in you're gonna rev the thing to the moon and either join the engine on the moon or burn up your clutch letting it out. I think powershifting is even stupid on a street/strip car as evidenced by my friend destroying a whole gear in a stock tranny and having to completely rebuild (including synchros) a Tremec 3550.

and when preloading the lever all you're doing is just touching the lever to point where you've eliminated that little bit of free play at the beginning of the lever movement. don't hold it to where you're practically putting it into the next gear. very little pressure is used. if you really get the whole process down, from letting off the gas to moving the lever. its all done in an instant. only thing faster is a quick shifter which just senses the lever movement and cuts the power momentarily so you don't have to do it yourself. well maybe that and air shifter but now we're just getting silly with gadgets.
 

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he just mean blipping in the other direction by letting off of the gas.

the difference between what cbr900racer describes as "power shifting" and clutchless shifting is the difference of preloading the shift or simply timing the shift with your foot.

which begs the question: which is easier on the transmission?
 

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he just mean blipping in the other direction by letting off of the gas.

the difference between what cbr900racer describes as "power shifting" and clutchless shifting is the difference of preloading the shift or simply timing the shift with your foot.

which begs the question: which is easier on the transmission?
Thanks Ol' Gravy for clarifying that. Maybe I should have said "chop" the throttle and shift at the same time. If the throttle is pinned, how many other ways are there to blip it??? Also, I think I have misunderstood what people are calling "powershifting"...if you mean stabbing the clutch while wide open and shifting...you will definitely tear a tranny up. Clutchless shifting is what I have been talking about and I still say if done correctly is safe on those dogs.
 
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