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Discussion Starter #1
The "What are you listening to?" thread got me giving the Excursion's CD player a work out. Mostly Joe Cocker's "Ultimate Collection" this time around.
The CD sounds great, awesome clarity! But I am reminded of a discussion I heard awhile back about how our ears find analog recordings more satisfying.
Anyone have any info or opinion on this?
 

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It was explained to me a while ago when CD were just coming out that vinyls had much better sound quality. The problem was that the quality degraded after each use. That was how it was explained to me.

Now, can my ears notice a difference? :idunno: CD's were easier to handle at the time. Now days, itunes is where I get my music.
 

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OH yeah how the HISS, CRACKLE and, POP added to the music:thumb:
I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminate these problems you know . . .

There are so many fidelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
 

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I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminate these problems you know . . .

There are so many fidelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
Interesting. Now if I can just resurrect some of the old turntables stuffed in my basement...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminates these problems you know . . .

There are so many fifelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
:thumb: That's what I thought. How do I access your writings?
Vinyl records were a pain to keep perfect, that's for sure! But, worth it as I understand it. I am not sure my compromised ears would be able to appreciate the true difference anymore.
But, long ago, 1979 I believe, A friend of mine came up with a "master pressing" of Pink Floyd's' Dark side of the moon LP. I don't know what the stereo components were, other than Bose 901s. But as I remember, it bordered on a spiritual experience! Especially the song were that woman does the vocal thing! Wow, still gives me chills!
 

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Interesting. Now if I can just resurrect some of the old turntables stuffed in my basement...
and once you find the turntable, have fun finding the phono input on a newer receiver . . .

Good stereo gear has a well designed extremely low noise RIAA phonograph input. The last receiver I tried that still had phono inputs sounded just as bad as the digital stuff because it was a "single chip" solution for the entire preamp assembly and was terrible.

You really need good components throughout the entire system to be able to listen to any music source. Single box solutions aren't going to get you there and anything that has a surround processor (THx or Dolby) won't correctly decode 2 channel stereo.

okay, I refuse to get dragged into this again . . .
 

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:thumb: That's what I thought. How do I access your writings?
Vinyl records were a pain to keep perfect, that's for sure! But, worth it as I understand it. I am not sure my compromised ears would be able to appreciate the true difference anymore.
But, long ago, 1979 I believe, A friend of mine came up with a "master pressing" of Pink Floyd's' Dark side of the moon LP. I don't know what the stereo components were, other than Bose 901s. But as I remember, it bordered on a spiritual experience! Especially the song were that woman does the vocal thing! Wow, still gives me chills!
If you still have a decent stereo rig, try to get a hold of some direct to disc recordings (Sheffield, Duetsch Gramaphone, American Gramaphone etc.). They will make a mediocre system sound incredible and a great system beyond belief.

I have several of these that were played once and that was to transfer them to 1/2" 2 track tape at 30 ips for long term playback. You lose a generation, but since the Direct to Disc process eliminates 3 to 4 generations already, it's still exceptional.

I'll dig through the archives and see if I can find some of my ramblings. They are all written to a technical audience, so be forewarned . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #9
and once you find the turntable, have fun finding the phono input on a newer receiver . . .

Good stereo gear has a well designed extremely low noise RIAA phonograph input. The last receiver I tried that still had phono inputs sounded just as bad as the digital stuff because it was a "single chip" solution for the entire preamp assembly and was terrible.

You really need good components throughout the entire system to be able to listen to any music source. Single box solutions aren't going to get you there and anything that has a surround processor (THx or Dolby) won't correctly decode 2 channel stereo.

okay, I refuse to get dragged into this again . . .
No doubt, so much has changed!
Remember what a big deal the Craig Powerplay 8 track car stereo was?
When the light came on you were pushing ALL 8 watts!:rotfl:
 

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No doubt, so much has changed!
Remember what a big deal the Craig Powerplay 8 track car stereo was?
When the light came on you were pushing ALL 8 watts!:rotfl:
As I mentioned some time ago, the playback amplifier in my office dims the lights in my shop when it's powered up. If the source is tape (meaning the turntable arm won't be skipping from the low frequency energy at full chat), I can get the lights to blink on every kick drum hit.

It takes a 60 amp breaker to start it up without tripping . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As I mentioned some time ago, the playback amplifier in my office dims the lights in my shop when it's powered up. If the source is tape (meaning the turntable arm won't be skipping from the low frequency energy at full chat), I can get the lights to blink on every kick drum hit.

It takes a 60 amp breaker to start it up without tripping . . .
Wow, I hope you live in a remote area!
Can you still hear, btw?
 

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Wow, I hope you live in a remote area!
Can you still hear, btw?
Very well, thanks for asking.

Dynamic range can be extreme without causing any hearing damage, while listening to something that is consistently loud (even at low volumes) that has a small dynamic range, bandwidth limiting, severe phase distortion, poor coherency and slow rise times (oops, I just described CD playback :rotfl: ) can be detrimental to your hearing even in low doses over time.

Listening to iPOD/MP3 headsets at even 88 to 95 dbSPL can cause permanent irreversible hearing damage in a relatively short period of time and is well documented.

Unfortunately, the bulk of live music today is being reinforced by low quality switching amplification and the levels of intermodulation distortion that people are exposed to is incredible. The last two concerts I attended were horrible and the artists felt they needed to keep the volume level consistently at or above the threshold of pain from the first note to the final "THANK YOOOUUUU" . . .

I enjoy loud music as long as there are some dynamics to allow you to maintain some perception of what "loud" actually is . . . When everything is played at a consistent 125 db or so, it's just irritating.
 

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Oh yeah, speaking of concerts, we went to the Journey / Def Leppard show this summer and the sound difference between them was amazing.
I don't know if you still know guys in the industry Ab, but whomever was running Journey's sound was flat out amazing. Their sound was by far the best I've heard at a concert.
I assume they were using much of the same equipment, but the quality of that sound was vastly different between the two bands.
 

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Oh yeah, speaking of concerts, we went to the Journey / Def Leppard show this summer and the sound difference between them was amazing.
I don't know if you still know guys in the industry Ab, but whomever was running Journey's sound was flat out amazing. Their sound was by far the best I've heard at a concert.
I assume they were using much of the same equipment, but the quality of that sound was vastly different between the two bands.
Too bad the band sucks.
 

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Oh yeah, speaking of concerts, we went to the Journey / Def Leppard show this summer and the sound difference between them was amazing.
I don't know if you still know guys in the industry Ab, but whomever was running Journey's sound was flat out amazing. Their sound was by far the best I've heard at a concert.
I assume they were using much of the same equipment, but the quality of that sound was vastly different between the two bands.
Saw Journey last year and really enjoyed the show (even though it was at Pine Knob which is usually pretty bad for louder shows). The nut behind the wheel has a lot to do with whether or not the audience enjoys the show, but unfortunately is usually the bass player's brother or cousin or whatever and really has no business running the house sound.

Again, the overall dynamics can make even a MOR sound system sound either pretty good or terrible.

The same thing happened at a Smashing Pumpkins show I went to a few years back. The Opening band was really pretty good and their sound man had everyone enjoying the show at moderately loud volumes. Once the headliners came on, they doubled the SPL and maintained it on the edge of discomfort until they walked off stage. My ears were ringing for three days and I was wearing shooting earplugs.

After the show, we went to dinner and overheard some other concert goers review the band and interestingly, they didn't make the distinction between the quality of the artist and the lack of quality of the production. They all felt the Pumpkins sucked and mostly because no one could understand a single word of the lyrics, nor tell who was playing what for the duration of their show.
 

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The same thing happened at a Smashing Pumpkins show I went to a few years back. The Opening band was really pretty good and their sound man had everyone enjoying the show at moderately loud volumes. Once the headliners came on, they doubled the SPL and maintained it on the edge of discomfort until they walked off stage. My ears were ringing for three days and I was wearing shooting earplugs.
That was just it. The volume wasn't louder during Journey, but the sound was amazing. We were up front, and there were literally times I'd turn to say something to my wife and the bass drum would remove the air from my lungs. You could hear each instrument and voice clearly and the quality of the sound was just awesome without being overly loud.
When Def Leppard came on, that's pretty much what their sound guy did. The volume went to the point that I went searching for earplugs (of course they cost $5/pair), and the sound was muddled. The bass wasn't crisp and the singing was lost in all the mix due to the overpowering volume.
My wife even commented on it. She's not what one would call even an entry level audiophile, and one of her favorite bands (like most girls from the decade) is Def Leppard, but she was going on and on about how much better Journey sounded.

Just one of those moments I guess. The sound was seriously that good, and I'm sure it had everything to do with the guy at the board.
 

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I could write two entire novels on the totally unbelievable stuff I have witnessed while doing sound over a couple of decades.

What I use to love was while we were setting up for a show, the band's sound guy walks up and looks at the console. After a minute or so, he starts tweaking all of the settings on the board.

I should point out that nothing is hooked up or running and the band hasn't even arrived for the sound check, but this assclown is already adjusting the sound on a console he's never touched, in a room he's never seen and on a system that isn't even plugged in. He just "knows" what it should be set to . . .
 
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