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Hi Guys, Can anyone help me?

I have just changed the oil and filter on my Honda CBR 600 F2, Its a 1991 and its done about 52,000 miles. After changing the oil with CASTROL POWER 1 RACING 4T 10W-40 fully Synthetic oil and a K&N oil filter the bike seemed to be running absolutely fine until about 25 minutes on the road and 10 miles, I change up and I felt a small clutch slip. After the next junction the clutch slips again and then the bike starts to run like its got kangaroo juice in the tank. Its juddering and the bike will not run in gear and cuts out the engine. If I give it more RPM the opposite effect happens and it backfires and kills the engine.

So this is my problem, When the bike is cold the bike runs fine and goes into gear perfectly. As soon as it has reached operating temperature it starts to mis-fire,clutch slips and as soon as its in gear there is no power.

So, this is what I can figure out, As the oil heats up it changes weights and this must mean that the oil is to thin for the engine at operating temperature and this is causing the problems? Could the wrong oil be the cause of all these problems? The bike was running like a dream before I had to change the oil. Have I caused any damage with running fully Synthetic Oil? I am going to get the oil out and put a semi-Synthetic Oil in it asap. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

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High mileage bikes tend to build up varnish on the inside of the engine. Synthetic oils can dissolve the varnish causing leaks. That is why it is not recommended to change to synthetic oils for older bikes. This could be one of your problems, except, dissolving varnish usually takes longer than 25 minutes.
 

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When you say clutch slip do you mean the clutch does not engage completely and bike tends to run away when you clutch in or a gear slip to neutral or other gears?

My 1990 FZR1000 - Changed to Full Synthetic (inspite of being advice against) and started slipping gears to false neutral half the way on the track. Intial pickup from 2-3ks revs was slow before the power fully engaged. Guessing that the clutch was a bit worn and so would the gearing be. Synthetic was not working good on my engine at those temps.

Changed back to Semi synthetic @ lunch, bike was fine in few laps but lost half a track day. You could be hacing the same problem. Don't know if it had any long term damages as wrote the bike off few days later. :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the information. Actually engaging gear is not to much of a problem It goes in gear and when the clutch is engaged its happy to select gear and stays still until the clutch is released. Once the gear is selected and the clutch is released (at operating temperature) the clutch slips and the bike will mis fire and cut out. When I start it up in neutral the engine runs but very very poorly indeed.

After waiting 3 hours for a tow truck I came home and wrote this post (and had a hot cup of tea!!), I went out to the garage and started the bike as it was cold. It was reving smoothly around the clock, went into gear with no clutch slip with the engine and oil cold. I did notice that the was a 'ticking' noise from the engine that was not there before the problems earlier in the day.

I will get the oil out and put in semi in hope of fixing the problem. I will give you an update and whether this fixes this strange problems. I think your right though, it was a bad idea to fit fully synthetic oil to this bike. High Milage (although its very well looked after!) and a older engine does not seem to like it to much at all. Cheers guys.
 

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I had a clutch slip problem after I changed my oil once. It was bad. I took the clutch apart and noticed thousands of tiny fibers on the plates that happened to be the same color as oil filter paper. That was the last time I used FRAM filters. Changing just the filter again solved my problem. I guess the FRAM exploded inside or something.
 

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FRAM filters are cheaply made and in the 90's they were banned from several racing organizations because of faulty welds which allowed the filter to come apart and spew oil all over the track. It wasn’t until a few years later where FRAM filters could be used again. If you do a search, there are reports of some filters on cars failing the same way, and this was in the past year or two. FRAM has not learned from their past mistakes.
 

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I put full synthetic oil :nono: into my 6000mile FZ1 a few hundred miles back. On my last ride [fortunately short] I noticed minor clutch slippage. Redline oil does have molly in it and that may be the problem even if it is labeled "for motorcycles"
I'd like to know if anyone was successful in washing the synthetic oil completely out
instead of having to replace their clutch plates.

dennis
 

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I put full synthetic oil :nono: into my FZ1 a few hundred miles back. On my last ride [fortunately short] I noticed clutch slippage. This oil does have molly in it and that may be the problem even if it is labeled "for motorcycles"
I'd like to know if anyone was successful in washing the synthetic oil completely out
instead of having to replace their clutch plates.:confused:
dennis
 

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not necessarily. i'm a firm believer in synthetics, and i don't buy any of that crap about greater shearing forces or hydrocarbon breakdown (i've read enough researh on the subject).

however, since i changed to mobil 1 15-50 silver cap, my clutch slips a little. bear in mind that this synth only has ~70-90 ppm of moly in it (very little). granted i offer anecdotal evidence, but as you can see others have experienced this, too.
 

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There have been documented problems of clutch failure in bikes running the new "low friction" oil. {It may go under another name}
dennis
 

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I'd like to know if anyone was successful in washing the synthetic oil completely out
instead of having to replace their clutch plates.:confused:
dennis
It can be done if the oil hasn't had too much time to impregnate itself. You need to remove the plates and let them sit in clean oil. Let them sit for several days and you may want to change the oil out once or twice and let them sit again.
 

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not necessarily. i'm a firm believer in synthetics, and i don't buy any of that crap about greater shearing forces or hydrocarbon breakdown (i've read enough researh on the subject).

however, since i changed to mobil 1 15-50 silver cap, my clutch slips a little. bear in mind that this synth only has ~70-90 ppm of moly in it (very little). granted i offer anecdotal evidence, but as you can see others have experienced this, too.
If synthetic oil causes clutch slippage. How do you explain the MILLIONS of motorcycles that run synthetic and the clutches don't slip?
 

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If synthetic oil causes clutch slippage. How do you explain the MILLIONS of motorcycles that run synthetic and the clutches don't slip?
I don't have to. why? because you're logic is faulty.

here's a parallel example of your logic.

statement: smoking causes cancer. (numerous clincal studies have demonstrated this)

the facts: some people who smoke have cancer. some others do not.

your retort: well, if smoking causes cancer, then how do you explain the millions of smokers who don't have cancer?

see what i'm saying? the point is that the assertion doesn't need to be true for the whole group to be true.

ergo, sythetics may cause some clutches to slip but not all clutches nor not all the time.

as for my bike, it may just be the additives in the syth and not the syth itself.
 

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not necessarily. i'm a firm believer in synthetics, and i don't buy any of that crap about greater shearing forces or hydrocarbon breakdown (i've read enough researh on the subject).

however, since i changed to mobil 1 15-50 silver cap, my clutch slips a little. bear in mind that this synth only has ~70-90 ppm of moly in it (very little).
My oil has 800ppm molly in it. I will warm up the engine drain it and replace it with Delo . run it a few miles and replace the Delo .
I'd like to try mobil 1 but now I'm on the cautious side.
dennis
 

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The oil manufacturers are constantly updating their oils with different additives. You can be sure that the oil you used 4 years ago or maybe even last season has changed even if the bottle and name are the same.

Look up some of the studies.

The energy conserving oils were reported to be possible culprits of slipping clutches. I can't remember if the energy conserving oils had moly as the additive. It's possible that energy conservatives have the friction modifiers that can cause clutch slippage.

So long story short, newer synthetics or even regular oils could have new additives that wern't in them last year that could cause clutch slippage. Auto engine oil makers are not worried about additives that would change how they work in motorcycles with wet clutches.
 

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You are right about ongoing changes taking place in oils.
Redline has brought out a new motorcycle specific oil with half as much molly in it as the Redline oil that I used last fall. That tells us something. They are really trying to do something for bikers
The new oil has 500ppm molly, with increased zinc and phosphate levels for higher protection levels in the event of oil film failure.

You are also right about auto oils and friction modifiers. We must avoid energy conserving oils.
Their unspecified friction modifiers do cause wet clutch problems. There are two forms of molly . One of them is said not to cause problems.

At this point I'm going to run Rotella T for a while to clean the old oil out of my clutch.

Synthetic oil reduces startup wear as its chemistry keeps it in the bearing spaces when the engine is not running. I'll return to it when my clutch is better.
dennis
 
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