Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Up til now, all my track days have been during relatively warm weather. Last Sunday temps began in the low 60's and only got up to around 67.....plus there was almost no sun to warm the track.
I noticed that it took well over a lap before the tires quit feeling 'flighty', so I disciplined myself to run a full 2 laps at moderate pace.

My question is this, how much of this is tire, and how much is temperature. The track is really grippy (Putnam) and the tires were Sportecs. 2nd question.....the tires show very little wear by comparison to other tires I have used, almost no balling...is this more the track temp or the tire itself?

Having never run a cold track, and being my first time on Sportecs, I am wanting to hear some experienced opinion about which is the bigger factor here.....is 65 degrees cool enough to affect initial warm up that much, and also is it that big of a factor on tire wear....?
Thanks
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,596 Posts
What pressures were you running? I ran 32R/30F in almost the exact same conditions and had the same twitchyness for a lap or two. My tires also show surprisingly little wear, too, other than a scalloping along the edges (suspension setup?).

Curious to hear what other Sportec afficianados have to say...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,668 Posts
When I ran the 954 on the track a few times with the M1s I also noticed that there was minimal balling of the rubber and a bit of scalloping on the very very edge. They don't show the wear too much. Every M1 that I've seen at the track looked about the same.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,731 Posts
I've noticed that with my Sportecs and now my Diablo Corsas as well...they don't ball up like other tires. At Jennings, HondaGal and I both had new tires and we ride very similarly. She had the Dunop 208ZR and I had the Pirelli Diablo Corsas. Hers look all chewed and balled up. Mine aren't at all.

On very cool days (50s), I drop my pressures more, like 29/29 and do 2-3 warm up laps. The Sportecs do warm up pretty quickly, but I'd still give them 2 laps of warm up, depending on the track and temp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,811 Posts
I've often thought about this: a nice mountain road is approx. 15 miles from my house, via city streets. By the time I reach the twisties, are my tires warm enough to get right into it? That is, in 15 miles of mostly straight-line riding, does the resulting buildup of heat dissipate to the outer edges of the tire?

Sorry, not track related I know, but I thought this was an appropriate thread for the question. TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,668 Posts
HondaGalToo : I've noticed that with my Sportecs and now my Diablo Corsas as well...they don't ball up like other tires.  
I'm suprised to hear that about the Diablo Corsas as I've heard the middle is harder but the outer edge is actually the same compound as the SC3 Supercorsa for when your leaned over....and the Supercorsas sure do ball up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,731 Posts
RRWANTR : I'm suprised to hear that about the Diablo Corsas as I've heard the middle is harder but the outer edge is actually the same compound as the SC3 Supercorsa for when your leaned over....and the Supercorsas sure do ball up.
I didn't know that. Good to know. I guess that's one of the differences between the Diablo Corsa and the Diablo. Maybe I need to get on the gas harder!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,668 Posts
or at least the SC2 balls up...haven't tried the SC3 compound.....The info on the DC that I just spouted was info from a shop owner that had talked to the Pirelli rep. He runs the DCs on his 929 (erion built engine that puts out 160 hp) that eats up tires. He really liked the DCs and said they lasted very well (said that he got about 800 track miles out of em) He instructs so some of that's at a slower pace...but about 200 of that was on Willow Springs big track at very high speeds all day when one of the mags was out there testing some bikes... For trackdays he recommends those over the Supercorsas unless your really pushing it that last 5-10%.....so I'm thinking of trying those next on my track F3 as they're around a $100 less a set then the supercorsas...what have I got to lose...if I don't like em, I go back to the SCs...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,731 Posts
Yeah, the extra price of the SuperCorsas keeps me away from them, that plus the fact I do a lot of street riding and the DCs are a much better choice. Awesome to hear they hold up well. I was wondering how many track days I can do on them. Sounds like I'll get 5-6 days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,668 Posts
HondaGalToo : Yeah, the extra price of the SuperCorsas keeps me away from them, that plus the fact I do a lot of street riding and the DCs are a much better choice.  Awesome to hear they hold up well.  I was wondering how many track days I can do on them.  Sounds like I'll get 5-6 days.
Yep, I wouldn't run the supercorsas on the street. If I didn't have the track bike, I'd be running the DCs for sure (unless I bought another set of wheels to swap out for trackdays only).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I read a while back (sport rider)that the key is to flex the carcass of the tire using heavy brake and throttle aplication. Simply letting the tire roll on the edge doesn't really make all that much heat until you are sliding them around. I also think that is why there is so much developement in carcass designs. It has worked for me so far. I had a cold tire crash once at willow, during a keith code class, while we were doing 'no brake' drills. I was on pilot race tires and i was on the fifth lap. the front end washed like i was on ice before i had even reached half of the lean. My two cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,508 Posts
Both trackdays I attended at Gateway this year have had about 60-65F weather with a little misting.  Gateway is a smaller track with 8 turns -- 6 left and 2 (1 reeeeeeeallly long one) right.  After one warm-up lap, my Sportecs were sticking just fine.  Honestly, I'd say my second-lap wasn't a full-pace yet either but the tires did just fine and after that, they were glue.  I think I've only slid them a couple of times and that was when I was really diving hard into a turn.

The Sportecs wore at a decent pace but they didn't ball up, like HG2 said.  The outside of the tire -- right at the edge -- gets pretty chewed up but I would imagine that's because you're spending all your time there.  The front tire has a ring on each side -- right at the side of the tire as well -- that is still pretty chewed.  They wore much better than full race tires, but then again, I wasn't running as fast as the racers were.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
My experience with warming up (in 60 - 75 deg Summer temperatures) is that you need to be quite aggressive from the off (i.e. use a fairly large part of the available grip/power/brakes), and to then work it up progressively the rest of the way.
Wobbling around and then giving it large is a recipe for disaster. Slow out laps at track days which force you to follow a leader for a lap are not good.
I think many riders at beginner and lower intermediate levels are simply not fast enough to get heat into DOT race tyres at all, are not well equipped to judge what's going on during warm up and are better off with BT 012s or something like that.
Pressure is also a factor - they won't heat up well at road pressures and need to be in the 29/30/31/32psi area depending on your weight to do well.
Running hard DOT race grades (e.g. SC3, RS 3 etc) for longer life in normal conditions is probably not a good idea either as they are really designed to hold correct temperatures in very hot and very abrasive track conditions at race pace where softer grades will wear out and again are very likely to be slow to heat up in more normal use.
I think track temperature is a factor, but in Summer nothing like as big as the above.
Tyre make is a big deal. I find Rennsports and Supecorsas (soft front, medium rear) warm up quickly and are ready for serious use within a lap and a half or so, and send very clear messages when they are cold.
Michelin Pilot Races are a bitch to warm up, need at least two laps and really force you to be aggressive from the start to get heat into them - they probably really need tyre warmers. The Michelins also have a disconcerting way of feeling OK but of then being a bit slippery when you push the extra little bit after a lap or so.
Rennsports and Supercorsas seem to show much less balling than the Bridgestones and Michelins I've used
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top