[bladeracer]

ok so my bike hopes out of 2nd and 3rd....im under the impression i need new engagement dogs....and ill probably need more when i get in there, but my question is where are the dogs...they are mentioned in my manual, but never talked about.....i have no idea where they are. what section would they be under in a parts list? will someone please help???

The "dogs" are part of the gear.
They lock into slots in adjacent gears to hold them together.
You need to replace the complete gear if the dogs or slots are rounded off.

 

[bladeracer]

thanks for the reply....... but that kinda sucks....do you know if i have to crack the case to get to the gears ?.....i almost think a new engine would be easier and cheaper then getting the gears replaced....anyone have any ballpark price differences?

Yes, you need to flip the engine upside down and split the cases.
If it's been a problem for a while it's quite likely the forks are bent as well from trying to hold it in gear.
If you buy another engine I'd recommend riding the bike first to know if its transmission is okay as there's no way to tell if it's good until you have it installed.

 

[bladeracer]

o yea, it would have helped if i said what bike it was.......its a 98 cbr 900rr.....but lack of money is limiting what i can do with this problem.....does anyone think that replacing the shift forks cud give me some temp fix. i know i need to fix it all, but i cant at the moment.

Not if it's jumping out of gear.
Shift forks generally cause it to not go into gear.
If you treat it gently does it stay in gear?

 

[bladeracer]

if i treat it gently, it will always pop out at 3k....

Dogs are rounded off then I'd say.
Best bet would be to skip over the bad gears until you're able to get in there and fix it. First to fourth though is a big leap unless you dramatically lower your gearing. I never get into fourth around town.

 

[bladeracer]

ive been doing 1st to forth for a while now....its not that bad, just sucks in cornering....im either going to do one of 3 things: trade it for a different bike, get a new engine, or spend 1300 bucks to get the tranny fixed....i like the new engine idea, i just think its risky when i can spend the same and know everything is perfect by getting the tranny fixed (because engine-wise my bike is fine, i just have this damn tranny prob)....or trade it as is for something else....what do yall think?

If you lower the gearing a lot you can probably ride around in fourth without too much trouble - I'm running -1/+5 on my 929 but I still rarely get up to fourth around town.
I can't imagine it's worth much as a trade or sale with a bad transmission. What have you been offered?
I agree, I prefer to build my stuff rather than take on somebody else's potential problems.

 

[bladeracer]

well, i would prefer to fix the tranny, then everything would be tip top, but thats about 1300 and i thinkl that i can trade it for a smaller 600 flat out and be alright, tho driving a 600 after a 900 aint really too great....i guess i will prolly just keep skipping, and change some gearing to accommodate till i can fix it....its just that i can get a whole other bike for 1300, tho this one is a keeper once its tranny works right

I would think you could trade it for an older 600 but I'd be surprised if it'd get you a 600 of similar age?
I would think you'd be better off repairing it and then selling it privately - trading is a very expensive way to buy a bike. The market and price for a bike with a stuffed 'box can't be very good?
How long have you had it and was the transmission messed up when you bought it?
Riding 600's is no backward step as long as you ride them as designed. If you like to get up to top gear and stay there then you shouldn't be riding sportsbikes at all, but moreso with the 600's. Keep it in the right gear and you won't be giving much up to the 900's if anything at all.
On a track or twisty roads I'd be surprised if you didn't even enjoy the 600's more than the 900.

 

[bladeracer]

well i would be fine with and older 600, but i would only dislike the difference in peppiness....but i only drive it to school, and lots of cruises on twisty rds....but the last 600cc bike i had was a katana, and i would hate to go back to that......ill see what offers i get for it, and if nothing, ill just save up and fix the tranny....hopefully its not much more then 1300

The Katana 600 is way over-weight for it's power output.

 

[bladeracer]

yea i know....an older 600 cbr has a way better power-to-weight ratio rite?
basically it would be much faster then a katana, but not quite what im used to now rite?

The earlier Katana 600 was 200kg and maybe 70hp and after about '98 they gained 8kg but no more power.
The F3 runs around 185kg and 90hp.
In '99 the F4 finally got an aluminium frame and dropped to 170kg but I don't think it made much more power even after it was injected in '01.
The F4 would be nice but it'd be worth riding an F3 as well as they're very capable bikes.
I'd expect the F3 to be faster than the Katana and certainly it'd be more capable in the twisties but I wouldn't say the difference is huge exactly.
The F4 is very similar to the 900RR in acceleration and top speed so I don't know that it'd be anything less than you're used to now. Around 10.5 second quarter and 160mph top speed for the 900RR (when it was new of course) and 11.0 seconds and 155mph for the F4. The extra weight of the F3 adds half a second but top speed doesn't change much if at all.
Can't find numbers for the Katana 600 but I'd guess around 12.5 seconds and 130mph (hopeless aerodynamics). Maybe 40 meters behind the F3 at the end of the quarter mile.
Numbers:
Honda Motorcycle Performance Numbers & Honda Street Bike Quarter Mile Times at Sport Rider

The F3 and F4 are great bikes but I'd lean towards the GSXR6 and ZX6R myself.

 

[bladeracer]

ok....600 just aint a 900, so im gona shop around for a new engine....its so lame that i can find 954, and 1000 engines for about 800 all day long, but my 98 engine is gona be around 1400....whats up with that?

I would guess that if you were chasing a 954 or 1000 they'd be $1400 and the 900RR would be $800 - at least that's how it works for me

 

[bladeracer]

yea i see parts all the time, but id really rather not mess with a transmission...so im just gona get a whole new engine......i was gona trade it for a 600, but i drive my buddies 09 gsxr 600, and right after, all i could say was its not a 900.....so its engine lookin tyme

The '09 GSXR600 is just as fast, handles better and is lighter than the 900RR.

 

[bladeracer]

yes you are very right....just as fast, lighter and better handling....i guess sense of speed was different since i have a streetfighter......the main difference was carb vs Fuel Injec. i guess i have just grown to like the carbs...my 900 seemed much more peppy, and responsive ( in my opinion)

The mistake most people make is trying to ride the smaller bikes at the same rpm they're used to on bigger bikes.
You need to look at the tachometer as a "percentage of peak power rpm".
If you ride your 900RR around 4000rpm (on the bottom of the midrange power) and peak power is at 11000rpm the engine is starting to make usable power at 36% of peak rpm.
So, on a 600 that peaks at 15000rpm, 36% would be 5400rpm, at which point the 600's should definately be starting to pull strong midrange.
Get on a 22000rpm CBR250RR and you'll find you're needing 8000rpm before any action starts.
Modern 600's are incredibly quick, they just require a different approach.

 

[bladeracer]

ok, do you think -1 front be geared down enuff? we would be trying to get more pull from lower RPMs rite? would this be enuff??

I wouldn't think so as -1 off the front is the common starting point for lowered gearing for normal use. As I mentioned, "I'm running -1/+5 on my 929 but I still rarely get up to fourth around town."
You basically want to be able to use fourth where you'd now be using second. Get moving in first and then shift straight to fourth.
You'd probably want something like -2/+5 but I'd have to run some figures on the 900RR to get a better idea.
My 929 with 15/46 is essentially geared down so fourth equals second with stock 16/42. I'm running 15/47 and it's still good for 70mph in first and tops out around 160mph.

 

[bladeracer]

whewwwww -2/+5 would be crazy! that would be a wheelie monster from hell if im thinking correctly.......but like i said before, i can ride it fine the way it is now, so -1 front could only help rite? because on average, my 1st to 4th shift leaves me in 4 gear rite about 2500rpm.....and i would say there is some lag between 2 and 3500 (but not much) this is why i would think -1 front would help

It'll wheelie wherever you want it to but it's not too difficult to keep it under control even on the track.
Stock gearing on the 929 drops from around 5000rpm in first at 40mph to just under 3000rpm in fourth at the same speed so it is doable. Dropping one front tooth would take it from 5500rpm at 40mph down to 3000rpm.
With my -1/+5 it's 6500rpm at 40mph down to 3300rpm in fourth.

 

[bladeracer]

ok then, does yours not seem like you go threw gears too qwick....last time i changed gearing on a bike, it seemed like i was always shifting, and the dam thing wudnt go much more then 100mph, but it was not a 900, sooooooo

does your 929 seem to have much better acceleration then the stock config?.... and can you only really tell the difference from a dead stop? ( i remember it launching faster, but not pulling harder...is that rite)

Nope, it rides just fine on the road including touring across Australia with that gearing.
The main purpose of lowering the gearing is to get you up into the higher gears sooner. They're closer together and don't have a neutral between them.
Stock gearing of 16/42 on the racetrack means fourth gear pulls 160mph, and since that's the top speed of my local circuit I'd never get above fourth. Two other straights top out at 125mph which is right in the middle of second (110mph) and third (135mph) gears requiring an uneccessary shift up and immediately back down for the following turn. Even worse though, most of the turns are right around the 60mph area. That's too low for third (5200rpm) to pull cleanly from and right on the bottom edge for second (6200rpm), so if I get balked in the turn and have to slow even slightly the bike drops out of the power. With the full Akrapovic system, the bottom of usable power is pushed up to around 7000rpm which would require first gear (8800rpm) - which gives just a short squirt of throttle and then the huge jump of more than 3000rpm when shifting to second, while still cranked over coming off the turn.
With 15/47, sixth gear pulls to 160mph on the main straight and fourth pulls 125mph on the two shorter straights. With the stock engine, third is much deeper into the power (6300rpm) in the turns so I get strong pull regardless of traffic. With the exhaust system, second is into even stronger power (7500rpm) instead.
You want to be pulling peak power rpm at the end of the straights in whichever gear is required and you want to be just above the bottom of the powerband at the slowest points in the turns so you can get a long clean pull off the turn without having to worry about changing gears.

 

[bladeracer]

i get what your saying, but is your bike any qwicker then stock, or is it just noticeable.....all this talk about gearing and gears just makes me want my new engine sooner....i hate not being able to take turns the way i should be.....but it gets me everywhere in 4th and 5th, so i cant complain...... and ive finally figured out what to do with my old motor.....so ive read on here that you can build/bore your 900rr engine to have similar power outputs as the 954: my plan is to keep this engine on the side and build it up as a hobby to have a better power output (because i hate that my buddys 600 has the same hp as my 900)

Perhaps from a stationary launch it might be a little quicker but, in general once moving no, you get the same result from simply riding in a lower gear.
I don't think the 900RR is known to be a particularly sturdy base for big power without significantly compromising reliability.
Certainly, it can be built better than a stock engine but I wouldn't recommend trying to push much more than perhaps 150hp to the ground.
The Blackbird engine would be a better choice if you want power.

 

[bladeracer]

well offcourse power is important to me, but im not trying to make much more then that.....i just want my 900cc bike to flat out leave a 600cc bike, and with that 09 gsxr 600 having the same hp as my 98 cbr 900, thats just not happening... i would be very happy with hp in the 140s......but thats all in the future, i just need to save up and get a new motor asap

Not only does the 600 make as much power, it makes it quicker as well.
I wouldn't bother trying to be faster than anybody in a straight line - you can train a monkey to do that. Concentrate on being faster through the turns - that actually requires some skill.