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Discussion Starter #81
I found that the old wire was burning near the solder joints. How many miles do you have on your rewind?
yeah, i noticed that aswell on the burnt stator. that was the logic behind the brass connectors opposed to just straight solder. 1. the brass mecnahicaly holds the wire together, 2. the brass and the wire both give more surface area to hold more solder which makes it less likely to fail.

as for how many miles i kind of lost track. i put the stator in the bike at about 22k on the OD and i now have like 28.5k on the bike. BUT I'm running quick acell gearing so that is off by a factor of 5/6

so somewhere around 5.5k miles. still charging strong :)
 

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quick update - my self-rewound stator is still going well, in the end I rewound it delta with a flywheel with reduced strength magnets. The epoxy encapsulation was a horrorshow to carry out, really sticky and messy, and difficult to see how you were laying in the turns, and I definitely didn't manage 37 turns per pole. 28 was all I managed, but it generates what I need. It needs 1500 rpm to charge at tickover, (with headlight and tail light on) and peaks at around 2500rpm with 14.6V, then the regulator starts cutting it back so that by 6000rpm it is just about on 14V. So that's ok for long journeys, without over-charging, last autumn I did a tour in France of 3000km, and no problems, the voltage regulator cooling fins stay relatively cool, perhaps 50C, before it was up around 80C.
It's already lasted longer than commercial-wound products, and I hope this is a permanent fix.

Why do Honda have such trouble getting this right? Is it just designing down to a cost? Or to a dry weight? It's a pity, this achilles heel still seems to be present on recent models.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
quick update - my self-rewound stator is still going well, in the end I rewound it delta with a flywheel with reduced strength magnets. The epoxy encapsulation was a horrorshow to carry out, really sticky and messy, and difficult to see how you were laying in the turns, and I definitely didn't manage 37 turns per pole. 28 was all I managed, but it generates what I need. It needs 1500 rpm to charge at tickover, (with headlight and tail light on) and peaks at around 2500rpm with 14.6V, then the regulator starts cutting it back so that by 6000rpm it is just about on 14V. So that's ok for long journeys, without over-charging, last autumn I did a tour in France of 3000km, and no problems, the voltage regulator cooling fins stay relatively cool, perhaps 50C, before it was up around 80C.
It's already lasted longer than commercial-wound products, and I hope this is a permanent fix.

Why do Honda have such trouble getting this right? Is it just designing down to a cost? Or to a dry weight? It's a pity, this achilles heel still seems to be present on recent models.
good to hear you had a successful rewind!

Charging systems have been an issue on nearly all japanese motorcycles since about the early 80's. the problem is that the charging system is trying to produce power in a relativly tight voltage tolerance from a large rage of voltages.. resulting in power having to be dissipated as heat. the tight tolerance also means that the systems are more suceptable to failure from really any added resistance or load (I.E corroded connectors, weak battery, powered acessories..you get the idea). demands to make charging systems smaller and lighter has really masked the improvements made over the years..

there have been several attempts to make a better charging system but nothing really stuck.however, the more modern bikes seem to have gotten much better in that aspect, probably due to LED,HID, better sealing connectors and better circuirty technologies. For example i dont see newer Fireblades having NEARLY as many problems as their older counterparts. i know my 06 1000rr has been nothing but reliable whereas my 96 900rr has left me stranded a few times from charging stator issues
 

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My rewind is still working properly also. About 7000km. I've just been checking the voltage, I'll have a look at the R/R temp also, just to see.
 

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i have to register so i can ask q's on this thread. i appreciate all forms of reply

1. what did you use to insulate the stator bare metal and the magnet wires (is that epoxy from the pics?) i appreciate if you can give brand names so i can research it, i live in a country where we have limited product options :(
1.1. can i use VHT hi temp paint as insulator, the ones you use on car engine cover?
2. what varnish did you use, brands if available please. here we are using the red paint used in alternator rewinds, but i like the looks of the clear varnish.
3. how can i determine a 200C wire? wire sellers here don't know that info, they just sell per kilo (about 13$/kilo for 18 gauge) and i dont know if it is 200c or just 150

FYI, new stator here costs 300$ and 2 weeks waiting
 

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motor magnet wire comes coated. try to find a shop that rewinds electric motors, they will have good stuff. The shop near my house gave me more than enough for free.
I have not bothered with the epoxy coating that OE and some aftermarket use to coat the windings after. So far it does not seem to make any difference. As the point of failure on mine has not been the coating as much as solder joints and undersized wire.
Also if your wires from the stator to the R/R are burnt, try replacing them with one size thicker. I used high temperature wire from an appliance store, they gave it to me for free also.
 

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thanks for the info 00blade.

but i'm talking about the insulator or coat that he put on the metal part just before you put on the windings.

varnish and paints are available here after winding.

i did have a shop rewind the stator, but they made a very poor quality that it got burned after 500kms and stopped charging while on a new years day while i'm driving in the expressway. i'm blaming it on the insulator on the metal hence looking for proper way to coat it before winding.

i can return it for backjob, but i admire R1 guys here who work on their stuff and i am planning to DIY.

additional info's please.
 

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There is a coating on the core from the factory if that is damaged from heat you can look for a spray on product. I have a can, but it's made in Canada. I don't know what's available in Philippines. I'll look for the name when I get home. You may not need anything if the factory coating is ok
 

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There is a coating on the core from the factory if that is damaged from heat you can look for a spray on product. I have a can, but it's made in Canada. I don't know what's available in Philippines. I'll look for the name when I get home. You may not need anything if the factory coating is ok
thanks.

there is a small shop that rewind alternators, i had them work on it before christmas, after 500km it got burned again, they use plastic and masking tape to replace the coating :eek: which all melted. looks like melting started from the soldering joints.

since i will coat it today, im looking for suggestion to use VHT paint VHT FlameProof Coating or epoxy, which is better
 

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Excessive temperature in the stator is due to a problem more than the coating of the core. Incorrect winding pattern, impropper solder connections, impropper wire gauge size, corroded connections in the bike wiring and large electrical loads from accessories can all contribute to stator failure. If the VHT can withstand the abrasion that will occur as you wind wire around the core, it would be my choice.

Question is VHT conductive?
 

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i didn't bother to DIY it anymore because i couldn't find a gauge 18 magnet wire that can withstand 180-200deg as recommended in the forum, in fact, i look like an alien asking for wire-grade and high-quality polymide insulated magnet wire while all shops told me - "we all got one kind of wire here in the country and it all comes from china" :rotfl:

instead, i took it to the number 2 stator winding expert, he said he'll be finished in 3-4days, charging me $50 for the process. while the bike is useless, i've decided to strip it down for repaint and fix all dents, i also plan to repaint the mags, so the time to rewind should be fine. don't ask for the #1 electric guy, he got like 10 ducs and harleys on queue waiting to be fixed.

ok back to the stator winding dude, he told me he will 1)use EPOXY to replace the base insulation 2)use better wires from taiwan :smilebig: 3)1-mos warranty.

one thing i did learn about the varnish, theres an electrical varnish being sold in spray can, but the best way to varnish a rewind is to dip it in a can of varnish.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
i have to register so i can ask q's on this thread. i appreciate all forms of reply

1. what did you use to insulate the stator bare metal and the magnet wires (is that epoxy from the pics?) i appreciate if you can give brand names so i can research it, i live in a country where we have limited product options :(
1.1. can i use VHT hi temp paint as insulator, the ones you use on car engine cover?
2. what varnish did you use, brands if available please. here we are using the red paint used in alternator rewinds, but i like the looks of the clear varnish.
3. how can i determine a 200C wire? wire sellers here don't know that info, they just sell per kilo (about 13$/kilo for 18 gauge) and i dont know if it is 200c or just 150

FYI, new stator here costs 300$ and 2 weeks waiting
1. To repair the stator I used a high temp paper insulator sold under the name NOMEX.
2. I actually didn't varnish the stator before or after the rewind. However i had an electromagnetic rotor varnished in the past after a rewind. for that I took it to a motor shop and had them do it. cost me like $10
3. the temp rating is usually written on the spool somewhere. polyester/polyimide coated wire isn't the only type of high temp wire. you can use any high temp wire as long as its solvent resistant

as far as what they use as a base insulator for the stator. It appears to be a type of powdercoat. I know for small motors for electric RC airplanes the stators are powder coated.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
yes sir!
I had to rewind the rotor on my 1982 750 nighthawk, which looks like its charging system is nearly Identical.

it is important to note that on that rotor, your dealing with a single strand of wire not 3. What I did for my nighthawk was I mic'ed the existing wire to get a guage then measured how long the wire that came out of it was. for precision and accuracy, it would be better calculate the length of wire needed from the standard resistance of the desired replacement wire (get as close as you can to stock without being smaller diameter).

If you have access to a machine press, it makes the rewind/unwind process much easier if you have the halves split. once its apart it will unwind like string on a bobin. make sure when you rewind that you replace any damaged insulatin and smooth any pits in the existing insulation! in order to fit the wire properly, you have to be "stack" the wires very neatly. Varnishing is a VERY good idea for these...
 

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yes sir!
I had to rewind the rotor on my 1982 750 nighthawk, which looks like its charging system is nearly Identical.

it is important to note that on that rotor, your dealing with a single strand of wire not 3. What I did for my nighthawk was I mic'ed the existing wire to get a guage then measured how long the wire that came out of it was. for precision and accuracy, it would be better calculate the length of wire needed from the standard resistance of the desired replacement wire (get as close as you can to stock without being smaller diameter).

If you have access to a machine press, it makes the rewind/unwind process much easier if you have the halves split. once its apart it will unwind like string on a bobin. make sure when you rewind that you replace any damaged insulatin and smooth any pits in the existing insulation! in order to fit the wire properly, you have to be "stack" the wires very neatly. Varnishing is a VERY good idea for these...
Man I am just about to do this! My question is how did you get all the enamel (whatever is all over the wires, varnish?) off so you could have a clean part to work with? I read maybe the use of lacquer thinner?


Thanks!
 

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Hey MTX, I've been reading over all this, and I plan to do the stator on my ZX-10r as soon as I can get my hands on some wire. I was wondering, what kind of solder should I be using on it? I would think the regular stuff I used for speaker wire/etc would melt at too low a temperature for use in the alternator.
 
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