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Hey Oxy, it's been a while since I spoke privately to Godsmacked and Fooffa. Not really in convo with them now, but about a year ago they both told me the things I mentioned earlier. I kind of lured Fooffa back for a minute, via PM, but she's moved on. I got to catch up with her, but haven't heard from her since.
 

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I read Jazzy's messages to me several times before I replied to him. It seems to me that he's advocating for an unmoderated community here...a free-for-all, where any action taken by a moderator for any reason is subject to criticism. I explained to him that in my decade of experience as an admin or moderator, it just simply doesn't work. Arguments, accusations, and often off-color stuff slowly takes over the forum, and it's main reason for being here gets lost. Who benefits from that?

I keep trying to figure out what it was he *didn't* say, but I'm failing. I keep coming away from his messages with the idea that whatever is bothering him here has been building for years and years. And that now he's got so much roiling around in his head to be upset about, that he can't back up and make clear to me what, exactly, it is that's under his skin. I don't have any problems at all with making changes here to benefit everyone....but that's not what I'm getting. Instead, it seems to have devolved into a personal beef with one of the other admins here, who has been here far longer than even I have!

There is a need for moderators on these forums. There always will be. We may not always get things right, but our efforts are universally directed at the overall good of the forum as a whole. IF...stressed...you think someone here has made a wrong or poor decision, PM me with details. Explain what it is...exactly...that's wrong and why. Part of my responsibilities here is to review these sorts of things, and to address them when necessary. I'm sorry, Jazzy, but going off on what appears to me to be a personal rant; calling me an idiot for not seeing your point; and threatening to pack your bags and go home...well....it just doesn't do anyone here any good. Make a clear case, and I'll take another look; but until (or if) you do so, I think I've explained my position to you as clearly as I can.

Does anyone else have a "gloom and doom" "this forum is beyond dead" perspective? If so, let me know. Let me know why. And unless you're convinced that only one person is responsible for your perception, don't focus on attacking one person in particular. And if it IS one person that's got you thinking that way, lay out specific cases to back up your perception. Don't tell me "if you can't see it, you're an idiot". If there's a "bigger picture" here that I'm missing, open the drapes and let me see it. Right now, I don't.

Neil
 

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Hello and I apologize in advance for the quick reply as I am on the out the door to a meeting, but to not sound like a sarcastic person I really think you should read THIS thread, it is disrespectful on the part of the mod, condescending on the part of the mod, repetitive on the part of the mod who was given ample opportunity to right the ship in this specific thread..I will not try to clarify myself again due tot he redundance of it, seriously, read the entire thread, the tone and the mod treating me like a school child, and you will see it, it doesn't need to be clarified, it is there in black and white.....I do believe a moderator should be in place but not as a bully...sorry I have to go:wink
 

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Discussion Starter #84
I read Jazzy's messages to me several times before I replied to him. It seems to me that he's advocating for an unmoderated community here...a free-for-all, where any action taken by a moderator for any reason is subject to criticism. I explained to him that in my decade of experience as an admin or moderator, it just simply doesn't work. Arguments, accusations, and often off-color stuff slowly takes over the forum, and it's main reason for being here gets lost. Who benefits from that?

I keep trying to figure out what it was he *didn't* say, but I'm failing. I keep coming away from his messages with the idea that whatever is bothering him here has been building for years and years. And that now he's got so much roiling around in his head to be upset about, that he can't back up and make clear to me what, exactly, it is that's under his skin. I don't have any problems at all with making changes here to benefit everyone....but that's not what I'm getting. Instead, it seems to have devolved into a personal beef with one of the other admins here, who has been here far longer than even I have!

There is a need for moderators on these forums. There always will be. We may not always get things right, but our efforts are universally directed at the overall good of the forum as a whole. IF...stressed...you think someone here has made a wrong or poor decision, PM me with details. Explain what it is...exactly...that's wrong and why. Part of my responsibilities here is to review these sorts of things, and to address them when necessary. I'm sorry, Jazzy, but going off on what appears to me to be a personal rant; calling me an idiot for not seeing your point; and threatening to pack your bags and go home...well....it just doesn't do anyone here any good. Make a clear case, and I'll take another look; but until (or if) you do so, I think I've explained my position to you as clearly as I can.

Does anyone else have a "gloom and doom" "this forum is beyond dead" perspective? If so, let me know. Let me know why. And unless you're convinced that only one person is responsible for your perception, don't focus on attacking one person in particular. And if it IS one person that's got you thinking that way, lay out specific cases to back up your perception. Don't tell me "if you can't see it, you're an idiot". If there's a "bigger picture" here that I'm missing, open the drapes and let me see it. Right now, I don't.

Neil
READ POST number 4 when this moderator started ..through till 12.

Secondly Get ya head out of ya backside, I am 48 years old, who the hell do you think you're talking to like this
"It seems to me that he's advocating for an unmoderated community here...a free-for-all, where any action taken by a moderator for any reason is subject to criticism"
I DIDN'T SAY THAT And I don't believe that...READ POST 4-12

"I keep coming away from his messages with the idea that whatever is bothering him here has been building for years and years. And that now he's got so much roiling around in his head to be upset about, that he can't back up and make clear to me what, exactly, it is that's under his skin. "
I was explaining to you that due to life treating me like crap that I wasn't the same person as I was years ago, And I bet any money you haven't dealt with the crap that I've had to (and no I don't feel sorry for myself or hold a vendetta against anyone, that's for stupid people to do and condone)

" I'm sorry, Jazzy, but going off on what appears to me to be a personal rant; calling me an idiot for not seeing your point; and threatening to pack your bags and go home...well....it just doesn't do anyone here any good"
ALL the guys on here understand what I'm saying except you. I don't have the time to treat you with kid gloves and write 10 pages so you can understand what I am trying to say.

RULE BREAKING !! I have just been through a court system here in Sweden for FOUR YEARS getting joint custody of my son which was due to my ex fiance tricking me at the tax office here.....and I'm an advocate or rule breaking as in POST 4 by this moderator. I think that the MOderators on this site hold themselves in a far to superior position over their fellow man and need to learn a lot of humility out here in the real world.

Every guy on here uses this place to wind down, talk a load of nonsense but on a quick witted level more intellectually based than you would give them credit for and no one should be talked down to. None of us here are children.

If you don't understand what I have written then you need some life education and never try to flame me again on a public forum as I never even mentioned you by name in my post
I have spoken with a moderator of this forum about his thread
.
 

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I read Jazzy's messages to me several times before I replied to him. It seems to me that he's advocating for an unmoderated community here...a free-for-all, where any action taken by a moderator for any reason is subject to criticism. I explained to him that in my decade of experience as an admin or moderator, it just simply doesn't work. Arguments, accusations, and often off-color stuff slowly takes over the forum, and it's main reason for being here gets lost. Who benefits from that?

I keep trying to figure out what it was he *didn't* say, but I'm failing. I keep coming away from his messages with the idea that whatever is bothering him here has been building for years and years. And that now he's got so much roiling around in his head to be upset about, that he can't back up and make clear to me what, exactly, it is that's under his skin. I don't have any problems at all with making changes here to benefit everyone....but that's not what I'm getting. Instead, it seems to have devolved into a personal beef with one of the other admins here, who has been here far longer than even I have!

There is a need for moderators on these forums. There always will be. We may not always get things right, but our efforts are universally directed at the overall good of the forum as a whole. IF...stressed...you think someone here has made a wrong or poor decision, PM me with details. Explain what it is...exactly...that's wrong and why. Part of my responsibilities here is to review these sorts of things, and to address them when necessary. I'm sorry, Jazzy, but going off on what appears to me to be a personal rant; calling me an idiot for not seeing your point; and threatening to pack your bags and go home...well....it just doesn't do anyone here any good. Make a clear case, and I'll take another look; but until (or if) you do so, I think I've explained my position to you as clearly as I can.

Does anyone else have a "gloom and doom" "this forum is beyond dead" perspective? If so, let me know. Let me know why. And unless you're convinced that only one person is responsible for your perception, don't focus on attacking one person in particular. And if it IS one person that's got you thinking that way, lay out specific cases to back up your perception. Don't tell me "if you can't see it, you're an idiot". If there's a "bigger picture" here that I'm missing, open the drapes and let me see it. Right now, I don't.

Neil
So I opened the drapes for you on this thread....did you read it and see what I am referring to?....Lan Refuses to acknowledge me now In the open forum as well as privately....so it's ok to get lambasted by a mod but as soon as they are wrong they turtle and don't address their mistakes even though EVERY person reading the thread states he acted inappropriately....I want an apology from LAN........period...he was wrong....apologize....and Neil enough with the double speak...read the thread man...
 

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READ POST number 4 when this moderator started ..through till 12.

Secondly Get ya head out of ya backside, I am 48 years old, who the hell do you think you're talking to like this I DIDN'T SAY THAT And I don't believe that...READ POST 4-12

I was explaining to you that due to life treating me like crap that I wasn't the same person as I was years ago, And I bet any money you haven't dealt with the crap that I've had to (and no I don't feel sorry for myself or hold a vendetta against anyone, that's for stupid people to do and condone)

ALL the guys on here understand what I'm saying except you. I don't have the time to treat you with kid gloves and write 10 pages so you can understand what I am trying to say.

RULE BREAKING !! I have just been through a court system here in Sweden for FOUR YEARS getting joint custody of my son which was due to my ex fiance tricking me at the tax office here.....and I'm an advocate or rule breaking as in POST 4 by this moderator. I think that the MOderators on this site hold themselves in a far to superior position over their fellow man and need to learn a lot of humility out here in the real world.

Every guy on here uses this place to wind down, talk a load of nonsense but on a quick witted level more intellectually based than you would give them credit for and no one should be talked down to. None of us here are children.

If you don't understand what I have written then you need some life education and never try to flame me again on a public forum as I never even mentioned you by name in my post .
So I opened the drapes for you on this thread....did you read it and see what I am referring to?....Lan Refuses to acknowledge me now In the open forum as well as privately....so it's ok to get lambasted by a mod but as soon as they are wrong they turtle and don't address their mistakes even though EVERY person reading the thread states he acted inappropriately....I want an apology from LAN........period...he was wrong....apologize....and Neil enough with the double speak...read the thread man...

@jazzy and @oxman1196 , Never seen my self as a peacemaker and don't want to be, instead I plead with you both not to forsake the Forum for the sake of someone else , its good to see you guy's posting and I enjoy the banter you bring , with the advent of Facebook the forums are beginning to die, please don't let that happen, rewind to a new start and I'm sure if member's see anything untoward against you they will join any protest, please don't leave us.Bill
 

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@jazzy and @oxman1196 , Never seen my self as a peacemaker and don't want to be, instead I plead with you both not to forsake the Forum for the sake of someone else , its good to see you guy's posting and I enjoy the banter you bring , with the advent of Facebook the forums are beginning to die, please don't let that happen, rewind to a new start and I'm sure if member's see anything untoward against you they will join any protest, please don't leave us.Bill
I'll have to agree with you Bill. Let's move on from this. Everyone makes mistakes, let's work it out and move on.


I'm going to try and work both sides here, ONLY for the sake of the .org

Let's look at the big picture. We're on the internet, on a site that we like to go to because we have something in common. I'm not a preacher, but I know as previously stated some of us feel personally attacked by a person who sits in front of a computer, who's part time cyber job (or hobby) is to moderate a forum. Probably not the easiest or fun part time job sometimes (or maybe even just describe it as pro bono work), but someone has to do it. As we have learned, there were some here that didn't fit. They're gone. I feel that the group we have going now is very mature (relatively speaking ;)) and we can have banter amoungst ourselves without feeling threatened, or picked on.

New members are new members. We welcome them, we hammer them, and we help them. Nothing more, nothing less. You can probably make a safe bet and say that any "new" member has probably poked his cyber head around in here long enough before joining to see how the core operates. Save for a select few that may feel the heat without knowing we're kidding around, people here are pretty opened minded in my opinion. I had one guy that I came at with jokingly once a few months ago. He took it personally, flamed me, even though I did an about face and continued to answer his questions. The .org was there to back me up, and it so happened to be Mr Brown. I appreciated that.

I've had negative posts directed at me and I'll tell ya, so what. I've put my time in here, earned my keep so to speak not with this back and forth banter, but with my knowledge, training, and experience. I thought I could build my rep quickly with helping everyone out, but I learned that rep is given out more for "other" things. Especially now with the "like" feature, you can like any post you want, without having to give rep. I think that's a better system. Rep, in my opinion, is built on knowledge, and assisting people with their problems. A funny post, or jabbing at a guy should be "liked". And I'll end this paragraph with the fact that the Admin are open here to suggestion and change. When the new features became available I asked a few questions in regards to a thread I think started by Jondog9. He asked if our rep system was junk. We spoke about it, got admin involved, and in learning how the rep system was tabulated and distributed, it was decided that a trial would be put in place with "less restrictions" on it. I'll be honest, it's been quite a while now, and I think it's worked out exactly as I expected; great.

I love everyone here in regards to our most active members. I think it's great we get to see each other's projects, speak about what's made us happy, and what's hacked us off, who's riding where etc (bump for the morocycle photo challenge thread).

My point is you can't take stuff personally here, even if it's a mod and you disagree. I'm not saying let people/mods blast you and do nothing about it. I'm saying take it up via PM, if it gets resolved it gets resolved. If it doesn't it doesn't. Move on. I'm guessing here, but I would have to say that any mod who has a problem with something someone posts would send a PM first, rather than flame in public. But I could be wrong.

I think we have a very solid group here, us and them. I don't think we should be splitting hairs like this.

Do I think that Mr Brown is going to offer up a public apology? Absolutely not. Does he have to, in trying to spell out the rules and make it a place for all to enjoy? I suppose not. If he was wrong in identifying current parties that broke forum rules then he should address them via PM. If he doesn't, then so be it. It's entirely possible that he's in PM conversations with Admin etc right now and we don't know.

In closing, I respect the members and I respect the admin/mods. I don't stir up stuff, and I don't like conflict. I get too much of that at work. I don't like this kind of stuff here and I don't think we need it. So let's move on, enjoy each other, the .org, and carry on our wayward sons :patriot:
 

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I'll have to agree with you Bill. Let's move on from this. Everyone makes mistakes, let's work it out and move on.


I'm going to try and work both sides here, ONLY for the sake of the .org

Let's look at the big picture. We're on the internet, on a site that we like to go to because we have something in common. I'm not a preacher, but I know as previously stated some of us feel personally attacked by a person who sits in front of a computer, who's part time cyber job (or hobby) is to moderate a forum. Probably not the easiest or fun part time job sometimes (or maybe even just describe it as pro bono work), but someone has to do it. As we have learned, there were some here that didn't fit. They're gone. I feel that the group we have going now is very mature (relatively speaking ;)) and we can have banter amoungst ourselves without feeling threatened, or picked on.

New members are new members. We welcome them, we hammer them, and we help them. Nothing more, nothing less. You can probably make a safe bet and say that any "new" member has probably poked his cyber head around in here long enough before joining to see how the core operates. Save for a select few that may feel the heat without knowing we're kidding around, people here are pretty opened minded in my opinion. I had one guy that I came at with jokingly once a few months ago. He took it personally, flamed me, even though I did an about face and continued to answer his questions. The .org was there to back me up, and it so happened to be Mr Brown. I appreciated that.

I've had negative posts directed at me and I'll tell ya, so what. I've put my time in here, earned my keep so to speak not with this back and forth banter, but with my knowledge, training, and experience. I thought I could build my rep quickly with helping everyone out, but I learned that rep is given out more for "other" things. Especially now with the "like" feature, you can like any post you want, without having to give rep. I think that's a better system. Rep, in my opinion, is built on knowledge, and assisting people with their problems. A funny post, or jabbing at a guy should be "liked". And I'll end this paragraph with the fact that the Admin are open here to suggestion and change. When the new features became available I asked a few questions in regards to a thread I think started by Jondog9. He asked if our rep system was junk. We spoke about it, got admin involved, and in learning how the rep system was tabulated and distributed, it was decided that a trial would be put in place with "less restrictions" on it. I'll be honest, it's been quite a while now, and I think it's worked out exactly as I expected; great.

I love everyone here in regards to our most active members. I think it's great we get to see each other's projects, speak about what's made us happy, and what's hacked us off, who's riding where etc (bump for the morocycle photo challenge thread).

My point is you can't take stuff personally here, even if it's a mod and you disagree. I'm not saying let people/mods blast you and do nothing about it. I'm saying take it up via PM, if it gets resolved it gets resolved. If it doesn't it doesn't. Move on. I'm guessing here, but I would have to say that any mod who has a problem with something someone posts would send a PM first, rather than flame in public. But I could be wrong.

I think we have a very solid group here, us and them. I don't think we should be splitting hairs like this.

Do I think that Mr Brown is going to offer up a public apology? Absolutely not. Does he have to, in trying to spell out the rules and make it a place for all to enjoy? I suppose not. If he was wrong in identifying current parties that broke forum rules then he should address them via PM. If he doesn't, then so be it. It's entirely possible that he's in PM conversations with Admin etc right now and we don't know.

In closing, I respect the members and I respect the admin/mods. I don't stir up stuff, and I don't like conflict. I get too much of that at work. I don't like this kind of stuff here and I don't think we need it. So let's move on, enjoy each other, the .org, and carry on our wayward sons :patriot:
Well spoken Ian:plus1::thumb:Bill
 

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READ POST number 4 when this moderator started ..through till 12.

Secondly Get ya head out of ya backside, I am 48 years old, who the hell do you think you're talking to like this I DIDN'T SAY THAT And I don't believe that...READ POST 4-12

I was explaining to you that due to life treating me like crap that I wasn't the same person as I was years ago, And I bet any money you haven't dealt with the crap that I've had to (and no I don't feel sorry for myself or hold a vendetta against anyone, that's for stupid people to do and condone)

ALL the guys on here understand what I'm saying except you. I don't have the time to treat you with kid gloves and write 10 pages so you can understand what I am trying to say.

RULE BREAKING !! I have just been through a court system here in Sweden for FOUR YEARS getting joint custody of my son which was due to my ex fiance tricking me at the tax office here.....and I'm an advocate or rule breaking as in POST 4 by this moderator. I think that the MOderators on this site hold themselves in a far to superior position over their fellow man and need to learn a lot of humility out here in the real world.

Every guy on here uses this place to wind down, talk a load of nonsense but on a quick witted level more intellectually based than you would give them credit for and no one should be talked down to. None of us here are children.

If you don't understand what I have written then you need some life education and never try to flame me again on a public forum as I never even mentioned you by name in my post .
Really Jazz. Thanks for the compliment mate.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
POST 4

I like to think that I'm quite good at explaining things, but if no one can understand why I am a bit miffed, I started this thread and it turned quickly into something else, a strict headmaster style of being 'told off' to other members about something that had nothing to do with me or my thread, then I got dragged into the same 'telling off' as well.

If I have done or said something wrong or out of order in life I am the first to say, if I haven't then back off and don't drag me into bickering and squabbles, I don't have the time for it and never have.
 

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POST 4

I like to think that I'm quite good at explaining things, but if no one can understand why I am a bit miffed, I started this thread and it turned quickly into something else, a strict headmaster style of being 'told off' to other members about something that had nothing to do with me or my thread, then I got dragged into the same 'telling off' as well.

If I have done or said something wrong or out of order in life I am the first to say, if I haven't then back off and don't drag me into bickering and squabbles, I don't have the time for it and never have.
Hey up Jazzy, morning, think there's only me and Gunk up at this time (on this side of the pond) Good to see your still with us, I know your lads over and enjoying himself and its hard to take time out (I wouldn't myself if it was my lad) First things first, but missing the banter:wink
 

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We're all up packing the car for a week in Dartmouth, Devon. Sun is shining and I'm wondering how everything is going to squeeze into my small Golf!
I'd worry about how your gonna squeeze everything into your budgie smugglers:devil
 

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POST 4

I like to think that I'm quite good at explaining things, but if no one can understand why I am a bit miffed, I started this thread and it turned quickly into something else, a strict headmaster style of being 'told off' to other members about something that had nothing to do with me or my thread, then I got dragged into the same 'telling off' as well.

If I have done or said something wrong or out of order in life I am the first to say, if I haven't then back off and don't drag me into bickering and squabbles, I don't have the time for it and never have.
Bore da boyo! Just got back from a holiday in Wales bach. Friggin' awesome!
 

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I don't mind the banter and piss-taking at all. After all, I'm Welsh and so have had the piss taken out of me all my life. :laugh

What I do find strange is the number of members that have commented on my posting of religious items...in the forum that exists specifically for religion!! I mean.....

 
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