Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org banner

601 - 620 of 629 Posts

·
Heeza Y Zasch
Joined
·
3,033 Posts
oooh. I like it way better than the other :thumb:
 
  • Like
Reactions: IanDoohan

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #603
Ok, what gives? Why is YouTube sending me a video that I may be interested in. When I click it open I see a certain 1999 racer build on track...
:rotfl:

That's right, it actually happened!!!!!!

I started a thread on that day, check Active Topics for the thread about Canaan Motorsports Park :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Nice build thread fella, read from start to finish in the last 2 days. Theres a lesson for all in here, just stick with the plan and eventually it'll all come good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
It's almost like a patient coming out of ICU and having the life support removed due to a miraculous recovery.......relating that to Agent 99 being "let down back to earth", by no longer being suspended by tie downs!!!!!!

Ian, were those your trackday training wheels on the wall?:devil

Sorry, couldn't resist. Nice man cave by the way.:grin
 

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #606
Nice build thread fella, read from start to finish in the last 2 days. Theres a lesson for all in here, just stick with the plan and eventually it'll all come good.
Ian, were those your trackday training wheels on the wall?:devil

Sorry, couldn't resist. Nice man cave by the way.:grin
Hey thanks exup, to be honest, I was hoping you saw some of my work, but was expecting all the pictures to be gone, surprisingly enough as I saw your reply, the pics are all THERE! sweet! Photobucket had killed the links a few years ago. nice to see they're back, even of they're watermarked.

Thanks for the kind words.

Check out my 93 cafe build. It's more interesting :wink
 

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #608
Amazing write up Ian, I love the coil mod, I'll be looking into this in the future as I was eyeing up uprated coils.
Thank you! Liam, did the pictures look clear, or blurred/watermarked by Photobucket? Been fighting them for a year now ??
 

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #610
Dammit :mad:, I’ll be working in the next few weeks to repost all of the pictures in both my build threads. It’s gonna take a while.
 

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #612
good think you won't be at work for a while :D
Unfortunately in a situation like this I'm working more............duty calls. If I didn't have to work those threads of mine would be perfect again already :LOL:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Hi All
As a concerned ex racer and mechanical engineer, I have to raise comment/ask question!
Noticed some time back that you started "painting" stuff for no other than cosmetic pleasure (On a track day bike?)!
1st off, If Honda didn't paint it there are at least good 2 reasons why Honda & Tadao Baba san did not paint it! 1) Heat retention, paint is a fantastic insulator and will keep that heat in! Meaning your radiator will have to do more work, that's if the thing being overheated (Alternator) don't blow any way! Over heated brakes! Vinales! 2) Weight/Mass. Useless added weight! (Insult to Tadao Baba and the team! Blasphemy!) On calipers this is also Un-sprung weight the most critical on your Track Day bike! So added paint is a total WOFTAM.
Give the part(s) a fastidious clean and appreciate the patina of age and how well Hondas parts last!
If there's big gravel rash, patch with a Xm (Xft) colour match and suitable radiating coating.
Crankcase end covers? Get some case protectors (Smick even if they add weight, Hippo-critical)! Total fairings used to do an amazing amount to protect stuff? Might even save your Crankshaft.
2nd off. Stainless "bolts" in calipers!!! From bitter experience (and I should have known better!!!???) the bolts holding your calipers to the forks and the two halves together will be (If Honda) High Tensile bolts. Reason why they appear expensive compared to other bolts! These bolts MUST always be torqued to Hondas recommendation, to give the brakes the rigidity they require! SS will not have the tensile strength of an ordinary bolt let alone a High tensile one!!! If torqued to Honda settings they WILL shear.
SS is also more dense than High tensile steel so is heavier size for size, so in this case your un-sprung weight is out the window. Every gram (ounce) counts.
Tadao Baba will also have taken thermal expansion into account.
Unfortunately for you, Titanium (Expensive) can have the tensile strength of high tensile steel and will be lighter.
Everyone misses an old trick to save weight (One that Tadao Baba could not use due to cost!)! Hollow bolts and screws! There are charts available giving the drill diameters etc that can be used to hollow out bolts and screws. This can save an amazing amount of weight, can be done at home (carefully) with a drill press and good vice or ideally small lathe!
3rd. Please do not replace flange head bolts and screws with ordinary allen bolts or screws, they will stuff the casing or surface they are tightening against, and have almost certainly been used as a weight saver? Half height bolt/screw head, thinner washer!
OK!
That's put the cat amongst the pigeons!
Rubber Down Bubble Up! (Stop procrastinating and poncing, get it on the track!)
 

·
President: Team Full Chat
Joined
·
8,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #614
As a concerned ex racer and mechanical engineer, I have to raise comment/ask question!
Noticed some time back that you started "painting" stuff for no other than cosmetic pleasure (On a track day bike?)!
1st off, If Honda didn't paint it there are at least good 2 reasons why Honda & Tadao Baba san did not paint it! 1) Heat retention, paint is a fantastic insulator and will keep that heat in! Meaning your radiator will have to do more work, that's if the thing being overheated (Alternator) don't blow any way! Over heated brakes! Vinales! 2) Weight/Mass. Useless added weight! (Insult to Tadao Baba and the team! Blasphemy!) On calipers this is also Un-sprung weight the most critical on your Track Day bike! So added paint is a total WOFTAM.
As a novice who for over 20 years wanted to track a 900RR, this rebuild of a crashed bike was both fun and exciting. I have a hard time putting damaged parts on anything, thus there were some rehabbed parts that I felt the need to paint (side covers and cam cover). The calipers were painted with a specific paint for calipers alas, the fluid ate through it anyway, which was my only concern. They were since replaced with RC51 calipers, which I believe was noted in the thread. The radiator was painted with a specific radiator paint, diluted to continue its heat dispersion. The side covers were absolutely painted from the factory, if you actually read the thread you would know that I sanded the OEM paint off and added my own due to them being damaged. Track day bike or not, it's been done right. The idea here was to build the bike the way I wanted to. Your comments have been noted however, don't apply to me.

Stainless "bolts" in calipers!!! From bitter experience (and I should have known better!!!???) the bolts holding your calipers to the forks and the two halves together will be (If Honda) High Tensile bolts. Reason why they appear expensive compared to other bolts! These bolts MUST always be torqued to Hondas recommendation, to give the brakes the rigidity they require! SS will not have the tensile strength of an ordinary bolt let alone a High tensile one!!! If torqued to Honda settings they WILL shear.
SS is also more dense than High tensile steel so is heavier size for size, so in this case your un-sprung weight is out the window. Every gram (ounce) counts.
The stainless caliper bolts are a known "visual enhancement" to the dismal OEM bolts. Although I can't speak directly to their tensile strength and/or shear strength, I do know they only torque to about 23 NM, and have shown no issues with my feeble ability and 4 track days. Weight savings was not an ultimate goal and not something I even measured.

Rubber Down Bubble Up! (Stop procrastinating and poncing, get it on the track!)
I've ridden 4 track days with this particular bike with ZERO issues, aside from me being slow and smooth. My goal of riding the track on a 900RR was fulfilled without injury or mechanical failure of any sort, and I don't foresee any in the future.

I appreciate your input, but as this thread is already about 3 and a 1/2 years old, it's all fairly irrelevant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Always amused to see how fashions revolve. The timeline varies, sometimes years, sometimes decades, sometimes generations!
The input is unfortunately totally relevant. I'd hoped your response would be a responsible that this was a cosmetic not technical rebuild and that you were totally aware of the strength technical side of things!
I believe you cleaned the damaged areas only? Painting over the original Honda "Paint" where not damaged. Appreciate you like your paintwork to be arms length perfect rather than the normal COVID distance that an anti corrosion colour/paint match patch would give, but for a bike that ain't going to be a "Show Pony"!
See! Just like I did not take the time to read through the whole "Thread" (luv it when people use "in-speak"), so I never noticed you'd actually painted the calipers! As for painting an anodised radiator? The reason I stated about giving the radiator extra work to do was, obviously talking to those who already know, Blades (and other RR and Supersports bikes) are built to a level somewhere between a road bike and a race bike. So the functionality of stuff is far more marginal than say what is fitted to Gold Wings or BMW R12xx GSx (fill x{s} with your values). I've spent untold hours "saving $" (?) straightening (removing) all those bent "fins" you get in radiators. Makes a complete beneficial difference on TZ (Excuse the manufacturer & 2 stroke reference) race bike (My first one was an ex US works bike ex Kel Carruthers) otherwise you'd replace the radiator maybe once a year. Worth doing on a Blade every now and then, especially if you live in humid climes.
Paint is also a "Visual Enhancement". The problem here is the reappearing fashion trend rather than the reality. "Chinese Whispers" Come in here.You have a Huge standing as the "GO TO" person, everybody hopes "El Presidentee" will point them in the right direction. Time means you point them to a "thread" rather than repeating oneself, that's OK but you have to be beyond reproach with correctness. Stainless Steel for "VE" should not be used to replace OEM high tensile bolts even for road use. You could be looking at legal problems in the event of component failure causing an accident?
This all caused a lot of magazines and business's to disappear back in the 1980/90s due to people dissolving things down until things went wrong!
Always concerned when facts cause people to be self depreciating and then take out their frustrations on others, have to ask who said you were feeble?
As have not read through all 30 odd "pages", which pages cover your track day outings?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Jbboz you take your credentials a little too far. Paint isn't a "fantastic" insulator. The heat retention of the paint, which is a few thousandths thick, is negligible. The radiator for the blade can more than handle the heat load while racing. The racing of a track day is a far cry from motogp.
The shear strength of the screws is far higher than they will be subject to in any conditions. The screws are selected for the economy of production, not the technical specs or weight. If having hollow screws makes a difference in your lap times, you belong in motogp, not a track day.
Your entire response is the difference between someone who sits at a desk and thinks about a perfect system than someone who actually does the work. If you actually work as a mechanical engineer, try going on the production floor once in a while.
Finally, the fact that you call them bolts instead of screws screams of a lack of credibility. Any mechanical engineer worth their salt knows the difference. Screws are any fastener which can be torqued by the head. Bolts are any fastener which requires torquing via a nut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
As a novice who for over 20 years wanted to track a 900RR, this rebuild of a crashed bike was both fun and exciting. I have a hard time putting damaged parts on anything, thus there were some rehabbed parts that I felt the need to paint (side covers and cam cover). The calipers were painted with a specific paint for calipers alas, the fluid ate through it anyway, which was my only concern. They were since replaced with RC51 calipers, which I believe was noted in the thread. The radiator was painted with a specific radiator paint, diluted to continue its heat dispersion. The side covers were absolutely painted from the factory, if you actually read the thread you would know that I sanded the OEM paint off and added my own due to them being damaged. Track day bike or not, it's been done right. The idea here was to build the bike the way I wanted to. Your comments have been noted however, don't apply to me.



The stainless caliper bolts are a known "visual enhancement" to the dismal OEM bolts. Although I can't speak directly to their tensile strength and/or shear strength, I do know they only torque to about 23 NM, and have shown no issues with my feeble ability and 4 track days. Weight savings was not an ultimate goal and not something I even measured.



I've ridden 4 track days with this particular bike with ZERO issues, aside from me being slow and smooth. My goal of riding the track on a 900RR was fulfilled without injury or mechanical failure of any sort, and I don't foresee any in the future.

I appreciate your input, but as this thread is already about 3 and a 1/2 years old, it's all fairly irrelevant.
Your seven years older and wiser I bet you could get that thing straightened out now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Jbboz you take your credentials a little too far. Paint isn't a "fantastic" insulator. The heat retention of the paint, which is a few thousandths thick, is negligible. The radiator for the blade can more than handle the heat load while racing. The racing of a track day is a far cry from motogp.
The shear strength of the screws is far higher than they will be subject to in any conditions. The screws are selected for the economy of production, not the technical specs or weight. If having hollow screws makes a difference in your lap times, you belong in motogp, not a track day.
Your entire response is the difference between someone who sits at a desk and thinks about a perfect system than someone who actually does the work. If you actually work as a mechanical engineer, try going on the production floor once in a while.
Finally, the fact that you call them bolts instead of screws screams of a lack of credibility. Any mechanical engineer worth their salt knows the difference. Screws are any fastener which can be torqued by the head. Bolts are any fastener which requires torquing via a nut.
ASSUME! - ASS out of U & ME!!! learnt that from an East Coast American! Just so you don't think it's from UK or OZ!
Actually unless you wish to disclose your qualifications and experience or the facts, Paint is a Fantastic insulator which is why Mr Honda tends to use "Coatings" as opposed to Paint! To radiate the heat.
Take it up with Honda, not me.
If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing properly/correctly! Whether it is in the back yard, Around a "Farm", on a "Track" or on the Road - Safety and especially the safety of others is PARAMOUNT!
As I pointed out - Stainless Steel fasteners have a tensile strength less than that of a standard steel fastener, let alone that of the High Tensile fasteners Honda and Nissin use!
And if you had read the facts on the Fireblade, you would know that they were used for both their STRENGTH and the economy of Production.
Again, Don't have a go at me have a go at Tadeo Baba San!
Anh! if I were doing MotoGp or top National Comp' I'd be using far more exotic materials! Doh!
I love that in these responses people ASSUME they know who they are dealing with! When they have "Skant" knowledge of that person!
It is also interesting that they jump to the ?defence? of others who are not being insulted, only questioned!
Have been aware for many years that getting "Shiny Pants" is not a good idea, So am always out there doing it not just "Preaching" it. What about you?
Another old saying "It takes one to know one!" comes to mind, especially if you happen to have had some managerial education and experience!
Finally from Honda OEM (online microfiche etc) - 1999 CBR900RRX - Front Brake Caliper.
Nr 13 90107-MAS-E01 BOLT, TORX, 8x35...
Nr 14 90108-MAS-E01 BOLT, TORX, 8x40...
Nr 15 90131-GAA-000 BOLT, FLANGE, 8x25...
Again take it up with Honda, not me!
Personally I have always thought that if you tighten it with a screw driver, it's a screw! If you tighten it with a spanner it's a Bolt!
If I buy it as a Nut and Bolt but do no use the Nut, does that make it a screw? What about Coach Bolts?
You might also want to look through some of the fastener catalogues Internationally, for the variety of titles stuff has.
Any Mechanical Engineer worth their salt knows that in this day and age, Nothing is what it used to be!
Once again, to others, I sort of apologies for occupying space with my Right to Reply!
No responsibility is taken for spelling or terminological errors by the author of this writing! especially those not detected by spell and grammar checkers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
you need to calm down with your exclamations, guy.
i'm sorry to say, you're just wrong. you're overanalyzing absolutely everything about the design. if yo uwant proof of this, look at the caliper bolts, they're far larger diameter than necessary. the fairing bolts are far heavier than necessary. embossing "honda" on any part adds far more weight than necessary. the forgings for the engine are thicker than necessary. i could go on and on.
my qualifications? i don't need them to know you're wrong. but i'm a rocket scientist. i design, develop and test experimental air and spacecraft. you wanna know how much we care about the fastener selection? not at all. they never fail in shear, ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Interesting Veery Interesting
Again suggest you read the Fireblade design Book!
So if you're a Rocket Scientist how can you be so wrong! Speaking from experience!
You've never seen a fastener fail in shear, you have never lived!
Since when were we talking shear here anyway, think the word has been tensile!
A Rocket Scientist?
So how many Motorcycles have you built, rebuilt, made, maintained, ridden and raced?
 
601 - 620 of 629 Posts
Top