[bladeracer]

Ive never seen a charging system with broken magnets so im not sure what it would do. ive never even broke a magnet on any of my model motors... but here is my guess.

The stator and rotor in many bikes and in particular the Blades is impact prone so it wouldn't be too unusual to find they could have cracks in them.
I think impact would be the only pratical way to crack the magnets.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

if not wound with the right wire a hand wound stator will fail everytime, same if its not wound neatly and properly. since ambient temp in the case is upwards of 120 *c you need to wire with the right enamel coating. your typical enameled wire is only rated for 150*C so it will fail even if its been varnished. industrial motor wire is usually rated for 200-220 C. polyester polymidemide enameled is one of my favorites though pricey ($40 USD per lb). unless theres a short somewhere else on the bike you would be hardpressed to blow up a stator done with high temp wire, neatly wound and varnished.

its possible that you just got 2 duds but not very likly. a bad voltage reg/rec or battery will blow them up but it usually takes a little more time and rpm then 5 mins idleing. How many wires are coing out of your stator? 3 or 5?

3 wires. Normally you would see some visual damage is it was something causing the stator to burn out from a short?!?

I've tested the RR to see if it's bad. All within spec. Unfortunately, you can't test one to verify that it's good.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

Three wires on the 929/954.

If the magnets are damaged I would assume you'd just get insufficient output rather than burning it out?

I'm absolutely hopeless with electicity so I particularly appreciate your taking the time to educate us. I can't imagine I'll ever need to re-wire a stator but I'd still like to understand what's involved in it

Are you trained in the field or is this simply stuff you've picked up yourself?

glad you brought that up. My magnet has no visible damage, but i keep on getting the low 12-13 VAC from the stators ( tested everyone i threw in recently ). it should be at 70 Vac.

Is there a chance that a low field strength from the magnet could cause the stator to somehow work in overtime and burn out? or is it only going to take the field strength it gets from the magnet and create whatever voltage from what field it gets?

 

[MTXMUGEN]

3 wires. Normally you would see some visual damage is it was something causing the stator to burn out from a short?!?

I've tested the RR to see if it's bad. All within spec. Unfortunately, you can't test one to verify that it's good.

3 wire is good. that means its a straight stator just like the stator I'm winding in this thread. any shorts would be easy to find, there usually accompanied by a distinct smell, smoke and discoloration. if its the RR then you would be able to tell right away. usually when they go, they leave a lot of smoke and that horrible smell. most the time they also blister or melt holes in the epoxy. Did you check all the wires and connections aswell?

 

[MTXMUGEN]

UPDATE: I picked up the 18 AWG motorwire on the awy home aswell as some nomex. Ill start winding tonight. pics soon!!!

 

[MTXMUGEN]

Alright. I ended up getting only a phase done, this 18 guage wire is much harder to work with then any of the other guages ive used in the past. i guess its not surprising it took a little longet then i expected. the phase took me a little over an hour to do. it is 37 turn, 12 turns per layer. the 37th is the first half turn and the last half turn. with the lack of room i ditched the zigzag and just did it the same way as the factory wind: straingt over on the backside.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/MTXMUGEN/P1010027.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/MTXMUGEN/P1010028.jpg

this is not the neatest winding job ive done. 3 layers is hard do and still be neat since a gap on the first layer will cause 2 on the second and 3 on the 3rd. my problem on this stator ws getting the crosses done w/o taking up too much room

To wind properly:
start at the inside of the pole and stat wrapping the wire from there. try to get the wire to lay next to the previous one as much as possibe. you dont want ANY gaps. it is a good idea to also set how many to wind per layer. for my stator i was able to get 13 on the first, 25 on the second then the rest on the last. a small screwdriver with all the edges smothed off will help squeeze the wire and close any gaps. just be careful not to scratch the wire. I also use a set of needle nose pliers with all the teth ang esdes ground smooth. those will help pinchthe wire closer to the iron on the straight portions, wire tends to bow out.

 

[truff1]

This is awsome! I can't wait to read the rest. Thank you for taking the time to teach us!

 

[bladeracer]

Alright. I ended up getting only a phase done,

Looks good so far
Does it matter which direction you work around the stator - clockwise, anti-clockwise?

 

[MACI4LIFE]

does that wire have shielding on it, then you epoxy it and bake it after that as well?

as for the layered windings. do you mean 13 on first layer, 12 on second then 12 on the 3rd layer to make 37?

keep up the good job. i am definately attempting this.

 

[MTXMUGEN]

Looks good so far
Does it matter which direction you work around the stator - clockwise, anti-clockwise?

for this pattern it doesn't matter which direction as long as all the phases are wound in the same direction

I'll post pics of the actual winding process for the next two phases. I didnt post pics for the first since its pretty straightforward. witht he last 2 phaes you have less room to work with.

 

[MTXMUGEN]

does that wire have shielding on it, then you epoxy it and bake it after that as well?

as for the layered windings. do you mean 13 on first layer, 12 on second then 12 on the 3rd layer to make 37?

keep up the good job. i am definately attempting this.

The wire is enamaled. I dont know what this wire is enamled with but its pretty tough stuff. most lower temp wires are enamled with a nylon based insulation where as higher temp wire tends to be polyester based. it really depends on what regulations the motor shops follow. as long as its rated for ~200C your fine.

Yes, the stator will be varnished and baked when I'm done. if yuo ahev good wire and wind tight enough you dont have to varnish it but its it allways a good idea. I'll be varnishing mine and baking it myself (just need to find my old toaster oven!) ill include that in the tutorial

yes, 13, 12, and 12. you allways count from the front of the stator. the back has the crossovers and the terminations.

THERE IS A FRONT AND BACKSIDE TO THEM even before you wind. the clip that screws into the backside of the stator. the hole goes all the way through but its only threaded on the one side.

I know i forget to say little things like this in the tutorial so PLEASE ask if you dont see something or if I went over something too quick.

 

[00blade]

when I got my bike the stator went in the first 1000 miles. Bought an aftermarket stator and it failed in about 1000 miles again. Although it was wound with 16ga (stock is 17) the three solder joints were not staggered and they melted together. RM Stators was good enough to send me a replacement, so while waiting for it to arrive I wound the original. The trouble was that I could only find 19ga. wire. So it only lasted about 4500 miles. If I can find some 16 or 17 ga. wire I will do it again. I had some painful blisters the first time so in the future I plan to break the winding part up over 6 evenings or so. A local auto electric shop sold me some spray to coat everything with.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

when I got my bike the stator went in the first 1000 miles. Bought an aftermarket stator and it failed in about 1000 miles again. Although it was wound with 16ga (stock is 17) the three solder joints were not staggered and they melted together. RM Stators was good enough to send me a replacement, so while waiting for it to arrive I wound the original. The trouble was that I could only find 19ga. wire. So it only lasted about 4500 miles. If I can find some 16 or 17 ga. wire I will do it again. I had some painful blisters the first time so in the future I plan to break the winding part up over 6 evenings or so. A local auto electric shop sold me some spray to coat everything with.

THATS WHO I BOUGHT MY STATOR FROM.

The second went on me just now. thats the one i mentioned earlier how it was already getting continuity right after the install, 5 minutes after running ( it may have been showing continuity right from the start but i didn't check ). The person called me yesterday (mike ) but i missed the call. I'll see what he says today.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

The wire is enamaled. I dont know what this wire is enamled with but its pretty tough stuff. most lower temp wires are enamled with a nylon based insulation where as higher temp wire tends to be polyester based. it really depends on what regulations the motor shops follow. as long as its rated for ~200C your fine.

Yes, the stator will be varnished and baked when I'm done. if yuo ahev good wire and wind tight enough you dont have to varnish it but its it allways a good idea. I'll be varnishing mine and baking it myself (just need to find my old toaster oven!) ill include that in the tutorial

yes, 13, 12, and 12. you allways count from the front of the stator. the back has the crossovers and the terminations.

THERE IS A FRONT AND BACKSIDE TO THEM even before you wind. the clip that screws into the backside of the stator. the hole goes all the way through but its only threaded on the one side.

I know i forget to say little things like this in the tutorial so PLEASE ask if you dont see something or if I went over something too quick.

so the enamel or polyester coating on the wire is flexible like the regular shielding on normal wires. sorry for the stupid questions.

BTW, how to you go from the solid wire to be wound, to the stranded wire that leaves the stator? i'd assume that you just solder it together?

 

[MTXMUGEN]

so the enamel or polyester coating on the wire is flexible like the regular shielding on normal wires. sorry for the stupid questions.

BTW, how to you go from the solid wire to be wound, to the stranded wire that leaves the stator? i'd assume that you just solder it together?

yes, the enamel is flexable. it won't hold up to as much flexing as a regilar wire would though.
there are no stupid questions. how would you learn if you don't ask?

the next post that ill be writing here in a few will go over winding, repairing cracked insulation on the staotr and terminating thw winds.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

yes, the enamel is flexable. it won't hold up to as much flexing as a regilar wire would though.
there are no stupid questions. how would you learn if you don't ask?

the next post that ill be writing here in a few will go over winding, repairing cracked insulation on the staotr and terminating thw winds.

i wish i had more rep to give you.

This type of info is invaluable to a lot of us DIY'ers.

I'm getting a refund on the stator that i bought. they blame my bike, i blame their shotty workmanship.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

here's pics of the 1st stator. The tech admitted that he shouldn't have used the metal clamp to hold the wires in place ( as you can see it burnt out the wires, and probably some of the poles.

picture 2 is the part that has me confused. what it is is wires twisted together and tucked in between 2 poles. the tech said it was the beginning of the wire, and he did that so the stator isn't as high yield? I mentioned that the oem and one other aftermarket stator that i had previously never had that and assumed that the beginning and end met and were tied together then continued out of the stator to make one of the 3 phases coming out of the stator. He said thats a delta wound stator and it's high yield at 500watts Can you enlighten us on that. I personally call bullshit and think thats one of the main reasons the stators are crapping out.

picture 3 shows how long of a run the wires coming out of the stator have to go if have to follow the wire direction from the stator. i have to pretty much have the wires run underneath the stator for half the stator circumference before it goes out of the stator. Again, the oem and other one's wires exited the stator at pretty much the proper area so the run was short, up to the grommet.

 

[00blade]

if you have three wires wound together and three single conductors soldered onto the stranded wire coming out of the cover then you have a "Y" wound stator. If on the other hand you have double wires soldered to each stranded wire then you have a delta wound stator. Both designs will work, but I prefer the delta winding method for a number of reasons.

 

[MACI4LIFE]

if you have three wires wound together and three single conductors soldered onto the stranded wire coming out of the cover then you have a "Y" wound stator. If on the other hand you have double wires soldered to each stranded wire then you have a delta wound stator. Both designs will work, but I prefer the delta winding method for a number of reasons.

i don't know what he had, but he did say it wasn't delta. you bought the rmstator as well so i'd assume yours looks the same as well?

 

[MTXMUGEN]

if you have three wires wound together and three single conductors soldered onto the stranded wire coming out of the cover then you have a "Y" wound stator. If on the other hand you have double wires soldered to each stranded wire then you have a delta wound stator. Both designs will work, but I prefer the delta winding method for a number of reasons.

Sorry for not havnig the other post up yet. i lost internet because of a storm here. 00blade is correct, your stator is terminated as a wye. when it comes to motors, i prefer a wye termination every time. heres what it does for a motor

-1.8 times faster per turn, more wire in parallel or a larger single strand with less turns usually.
- less circulating currents due to the center termination point.
-better motor at speed, usually runs smoother
-slightly more effecient
-allows for a wider range of winding patterns

again this is for a motor terminated as a wye. heres the befefits to a delta

-more definable wave form, easoer on the speed controllers since it has a a better firing trigger.
-easier to mass produce
-smoother than a wye at low RPM
-wider range of k/v options
-no massive center termination. sometimes i dont have room for them on some motors.
-able to still work with a damaged phase

in sure some of this transferrs over to stators but i'm not 100% sure. from the looks of it they stamp their own laminations. The lams look to be thinner then the stock ones which helps effeciency but they didnt bother to use the special lams on the ends to give iot that lip above and below like my stock one has. that added material to the hammerhead will clean up the magnetic reactions a little bit making it a little more effecient. that lam on the stock one is also slightly undersized on the winding surface giving it more of a rounded shave for the turns to rest on. that makes it harder to cut through and short to ground. take away those end lams and use what appears to be thin powdercoating and you will get those shorts to ground.

"high yeild" sounds like another term for high effeciency. with the thicker wire, use of a wye termination, and thinner lams it wouldent be surprised if it is more effecient then the delta terminated, thick lamination stock stator. since i have no way of testing its power output i really can't say one is better then the other. High yeild at 500 watts... I think they are trying to say it will still put out power at 500 watts without blowing up. 500 watts is 30-37 amps depeniong on how fast the mtor is turning. the stock stator i was told can do 45 amps. in the lab this may be plausable but in the engine i doubt it. the resistance of the wire increases with heat so you have to derate its capacity. so basically a 35 amp stator can really only put out amps mid to high 20's